Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

newdelorean.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 343 posts

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#211

Post by taneq »

detaro wrote: post #113
Armisael16 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could even do a stickshift EV if they wanted to, though most car companies seem to not think it's worth the complexity/maintenance, and I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Electric motors have a wider power band, so there’s less need for gear shifting. They could get more efficiency with multiple gears, but it’s be a smaller benefit than in an ICE vehicle. One of the big early…

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point some manufacturer made a car with optional "stick shift" - with a stick that's just some switches and the effect on driving behavior/torque/... entirely done in software. (Right now electric is hot and new, so nobody is doing much to make an electric car pretend to be something it's not, but that could switch around when electric is the standard)

I've always wanted to replace the gearstick in an AWD electric car with a torque split lever that controls both acceleration and braking distribution and basically gives you thrust vectoring. Pull it back under acceleration and you can spin the rear wheels, or under braking and you can do a handbrake turn. Push it left or right in a turn to control drift angle. When stationary, go full left or right to skid steer on the spot. The stunts you could do with such a setup would be insane.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#212

Post by taneq »

jusssi wrote: post #206
alasdair_ wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me wants to create a fake gearbox and clutch kit for an automatic car that does absolutely nothing, but looks convincing to driving examiners. You can just change "gears" when you feel like it without any actual effect and the clutch is just a dumb pedal.

Accelerating to a highway would be a dead giveaway to an examiner. Those who learn to use the clutch well enough in the mandatory 20 hours to do it as smooth as automatic gear are few and far between. And obviously they are the ones who wouldn't need to fake it anyway.

Yeah, it'd be like when a TV character "plays" a guitar with dubbed music without moving their left hand.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#213

Post by taneq »

sokoloff wrote: post #162
detaro wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point some manufacturer made a car with optional "stick shift" - with a stick that's just some switches and the effect on driving behavior/torque/... entirely done in software. (Right now electric is hot and new, so nobody is doing much to make an electric car pretend to be something it's not, but that could switch around when electric is the standard)

Electric motors have maximum torque from 0 RPM, which removes most of the need for a transmission. Think of it as a transmission being a patch for a limitation in a combustion engine. If you were switching from electric to ICE, you’d need to invent this patch.

Having maximum torque from 0RPM removes the need for a clutch, not a transmission. You still need to keep the motor within its effective RPM range, which is certainly easier for electric motors than ICE engines but is still a consideration. Many single-speed electric cars have much lower top speeds than their power output would otherwise allow.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#215

Post by miguelmota »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #30
perardi wrote: post #27

Some useful backstory on the government regulation to allow low-volume cars like this on the road: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a34673012/where-is-the... And some history on DeLorean overall: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15352382/back-to-the-futu... …and it’s a pretty wild history.

John DeLorean background - I don't much care for Alec Baldwin, and I can't speak to the historical accuracy of the film, but the 2019 "Framing John DeLorean"[1] was a fun watch. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6256978/

I remember watching that film and getting Elizabeth Holmes vibes from John DeLorean. He made many promises on what he was going to deliver but failed terribly on execution.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#216

Post by saberdancer »

abfan1127 wrote: post #32
Armisael16 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could even do a stickshift EV if they wanted to, though most car companies seem to not think it's worth the complexity/maintenance, and I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Electric motors have a wider power band, so there’s less need for gear shifting. They could get more efficiency with multiple gears, but it’s be a smaller benefit than in an ICE vehicle. One of the big early…

is there some type of clutch that allows the rear wheels to free-spin at higher speeds?

Haldex type of 4 wheel drive do this, but in that case the rear wheels are disconnected at most times, they are engaged only when the car feels the need (hard acceleration, etc).

It's not a big deal. In EV cars it is more complicated as they usually have an engine per wheel so you'd need a clutch at each wheel.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#217

Post by saberdancer »

Armisael16 wrote: post #17
elihu wrote: post #7

> National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has completed a regulation permitting low volume motor vehicle manufacturers to begin selling replica cars that resemble vehicles produced at least 25 years ago. Congress enacted a DeLorean Motor Company-backed bill backed by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) DeLorean Motor Company, and others into law in 2015, which streamlined requirements for…

> They could even do a stickshift EV if they wanted to, though most car companies seem to not think it's worth the complexity/maintenance, and I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Electric motors have a wider power band, so there’s less need for gear shifting. They could get more efficiency with multiple gears, but it’s be a smaller benefit than in an ICE vehicle. One of the big early…

I'm not sure of the power curve for an electric vehicle, but if you add gearing, you introduce losses due to gearbox and you increase complexity.

It's likely that it is not worth it in most applications. Only cars that used gearboxes in EV space (two speed) are usually intended to be able to hit 200mph so they need extremely wide rpm range from their electric motors. I know Rimac used one and Taycan (not surprising since Rimac is partly owned by Porsche).

In Rimac case, they used the gearbox to improve 0-60 times but IIRC they are losing the gearbox for their new car.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#218

Post by saberdancer »

Animats wrote: post #122
samstave wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be cool to have a stick-shift in the car that was fake, and would just make the car play different sounds as you "shifted" and allow you to control your playlist and volume levels with it...

Somebody put that in an early electric performance car. You actually had to shift, and got audio effects, but it was just software emulating gears. It was laughed at in the automotive press.

People don't like fake.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#219

Post by Tor3 »

gambiting wrote: post #209
alasdair_ wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me wants to create a fake gearbox and clutch kit for an automatic car that does absolutely nothing, but looks convincing to driving examiners. You can just change "gears" when you feel like it without any actual effect and the clutch is just a dumb pedal.

At least here in Poland you can only take the exam in the car provided by the testing centre, you can't have the exam in your own car(with some exceptions like when you need to have a car adjusted to your disabilities)

I believe that's the case all over Europe. That the US apparently or supposedly allows taking a car driver's license exam in your private car is.. extremely surprising.

Re: DeLorean considering all-electric reboot

#220

Post by saberdancer »

leetcrew wrote: post #72
madhadron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get the impression that electric motors are hard on transmissions. Rather, electric motors don't need transmissions. Transmissions are a workaround for the failings of the internal combustion engine.

they don't need a clutch because they can't stall. but, like ICEs, they cannot make peak power at 0 RPM. unless the vehicle is already traction limited (quite possible), it could accelerate faster with a shorter first gear. my guess is in reality it's usually cheaper to just overbuild the motors than to add lower gears to hit your desired 0-60 time, but this isn't a law of nature.

Another reason is that any type of gearbox or clutch increases losses. EV cars are all about minimizing losses of energy as their power source is not energy dense as petrol.
Post reply on HN