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Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

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Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#451

Post by amanaplanacanal »

belorn wrote: post #300
ojnabieoot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very sympathetic to the idea that ISPs should be common carriers, but definitely not colos and platforms like AWS. Let’s use an old-fashioned analogy. An ISP is like a post office, and people’s letters should not be meddled with (outside of violent threats or pursuant to a legal criminal investigation). In particular, ISPs are relevant to most individuals and ISPs (should) have respect for individual rights. But…

If there existed a single paper mill company that held 95% of the market, and they decided to refuse selling paper to a news paper, then I would consider that a problem. It might not look like censorship, but the practical effect is very much similar. In theory a news paper could go out and buy land, grow trees, cut them down, and mill them into sawdust, and chemically treat that sawdust in order to turn it into pape…

If AWS has only 35% of that market, shouldn’t Parler have no problem moving to another platform? If they can’t find another platform willing to host them, I’d say the problem is Parler, not AWS.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#452

Post by 0x445442 »

triceratops wrote: post #202
jki275 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"popular vote" has absolutely no bearing on anything in this discussion. The US is not a direct democracy, it is a representative republic. The 50 senators who represent semi-conservative states represent the same number of states as the 50 who represent more liberal states.

> The US is not a direct democracy, it is a representative republic. I'm aware of that. And that structure favors one side more than another. This is not a controversial statement - the numbers (y'know, facts and logic) back that up. States are lines on a map. In the current setup they have more influence than the actual people living in those states. Do you seriously not see how that can lead to disproportionate rep…

So in a one world government China and India should decide what's best for the rest of the world... Got it.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#453

Post by ashtonkem »

duskwuff wrote: post #450
snoshy wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. I shared this in another comment earlier, but they literally were using a free trial of Okta [1] to secure prod. This is why all of their user data got leaked. Their code was written to fail open, so if Okta didn't respond for some reason to auth requests, access was granted by default. [1] https://twitter.com/okta/status/1348191370528256002

My understanding is that that was a myth. The data which was exfiltrated from Parler was retrieved through their mobile API, which allowed for easy enumeration of content and didn't implement some expected access controls (like blocking access to deleted content).

Them using a trial version is not a myth; that is from the official Okta Twitter account.

My understanding of the scraped data is that some APIs used both sequential keys, and ignored both permissions and their soft delete flag. It’s not clear to me whether or not that API was permanently unauthenticated, or if it failed open once Okta locked them out.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#454

Post by nobody9999 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #140
tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of Parler directly contravenes the AWS AUP, which demands that companies ensure their users comply with AWS's AUP and that companies kick users that don't. The whole point of Parler is to host Twitter users who violate Twitter's TOS, which is a cohort significantly comprised of people who are also violating AWS's TOS. To believe that Parler would have been viable on AWS to begin with, they had to actively…

I think a big part of this is accepting Amazon's claims as fact, which I would not. For example, Amazon claims Parler was not moderating when in fact Parler had some pretty strict moderation enforcement. One could make an argument of whether or not it was successful "enough" and you'd have to compare it to other industry leaders like Facebook and Twitter which both have copious amounts of child pornography, calls for…

Whether or not your (that is Parler's) statements or Amazon's statements are correct are issues of fact to be adjudicated in the litigation.

From a practical standpoint, your opinion (and mine for that matter, which I haven't expressed for this reason) is irrelevant.

As such, it seems to me that all we can really say is that the judge's refusal to grant the TRO (given the tests[0] applied in deciding such things) while not dismissing the case outright, isn't a positive development for Parler.

Further, the judge's ruling appears to have questioned the legal basis for Parler's claims. That doesn't bode well for them either.

All that said, claiming that one side or the other is factually correct without having all the evidence seems both biased and premature.

I'll wait until the truth comes out. Because in the end, it always does.

[0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_65

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#455

Post by [deleted] »

salawat wrote: post #177
GavinMcG wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Sometimes society really isn't okay with what you're doing.

It's not society not being okay with they are doing that makes it intersting. It's that the subjects of multiple anti-trust probes and companies known for on the down colluding in the past happened to be the ones pulling the plug. You can argue it was "everyone" having a problem with it, but keep in mind that the Valley is not "everyone". That's the funny thing about conspiracies. Everyone whose in on it flatly denie…

[deleted]

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#456

Post by duskwuff »

ashtonkem wrote: post #453
duskwuff wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that that was a myth. The data which was exfiltrated from Parler was retrieved through their mobile API, which allowed for easy enumeration of content and didn't implement some expected access controls (like blocking access to deleted content).

Them using a trial version is not a myth; that is from the official Okta Twitter account. My understanding of the scraped data is that some APIs used both sequential keys, and ignored both permissions and their soft delete flag. It’s not clear to me whether or not that API was permanently unauthenticated, or if it failed open once Okta locked them out.

That API was effectively public by design. It's the same API that anyone using the Parler mobile app would have been accessing.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#457

Post by amanaplanacanal »

Igelau wrote: post #305
notahacker wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wedding cake makers ultimately won. And only found themselves in court because of legislation protecting against refusal of service on the grounds of sexual orientation: nobody could have raised legal objections if they declined to make a cake that said 'God Is Dead', 'Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll' or 'Vote For Pedro' Nobody is forced to make a wedding cake with a long stream of racist invective like one of the e…

That whole thing was weird. I guess if you're a creative professional, be it an artist, designer, or cake decorator, there's going to be some degree of soul-selling you'd be expected to do where you make a decent effort on a project where you'd rather not. But forcing people to make cakes they feel morally icky about sounds like a guaranteed way to get some really ugly, half-assed cakes. Whether we like it or not tha…

You are definitely touching on a first amendment issue here. Can I as a creative be forced to make something that supports a message I find abhorrent? The Supreme Court didn’t rule on the first amendment issue. I expect that will come up again at some point.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#458

Post by DonHopkins »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #381
DonHopkins wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler had some pretty strict moderation enforcement against progressive views, just not against racism, death threats, and successfully planning violent insurrections against the government. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/filing-amazon-wa... Filing: Amazon warned Parler for months about “more than 100” violent threats [...] Amazon provided "more than 100 additional representative pieces of content" advo…

I addressed those claims in my last paragraph.

I saw a lot more than screenshots.

I saw a violent insurrection against the US government unfold on live TV, incited by Trump himself, with the goal of overthrowing the results of a fair election, armed sedition justified by disproven lies, which was planned and promoted and published in real time on Parler.

I also saw a map of the GPS data from Parler users who posted live videos and photos of themselves storming the US Capitol and murdering a police officer and attempting to murder Vice President Pence and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

So yeah, there's a lot more evidence than screen snapshots that you're conspicuously ignoring.

https://gizmodo.com/parler-users-breached-deep-inside-u-s-ca...

Parler Users Breached Deep Inside U.S. Capitol Building, GPS Data Shows

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#459

Post by tptacek »

duskwuff wrote: post #456
ashtonkem wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Them using a trial version is not a myth; that is from the official Okta Twitter account. My understanding of the scraped data is that some APIs used both sequential keys, and ignored both permissions and their soft delete flag. It’s not clear to me whether or not that API was permanently unauthenticated, or if it failed open once Okta locked them out.

That API was effectively public by design. It's the same API that anyone using the Parler mobile app would have been accessing.

That API --- their most obvious, public API --- appears to have done no authz, despite using sequential identifiers. There are private feeds on Parler. That's clownish. I don't understand why anyone would trust them going forwards.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#460

Post by thebigman433 »

Spivak wrote: post #125
GavinMcG wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Sometimes society really isn't okay with what you're doing.

Also I think dogpiling is often confused, intentionally or not, as conspiracy. It seems like a lot of people really really wanted to drop them but weren't brave enough to make the first move.

I really think this is a significant part of the whole thing. Tech companies are conspiring to ban Trump from their platforms so he cant speak, they just want to do it but dont want the ridiculous backlash from going first.
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