Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#151

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #89

throwaway45349 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem is the term 'harm' (just like 'freedom of speech') has also been poisoned by those on the left who would have you believe words are more dangerous than actual violence. When actual discussions and conversations cannot take place under the guise of pretend harm, real violence happens. I do wholeheartedly believe the attack on the capitol is just the result of a disenfranchised part of the population wh…

If you do not believe that words cause actual harm, then you don't know anyone who's been in an emotionally abusive relationship. There is no shortage of women with PTSD from such relationships who've spent the past four years continuously triggered because Trump acted just like an abusive boyfriend or husband, and it was difficult to avoid him on the news or on social media.

[deleted]

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#152

Post by nostromo » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #46

nostromo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

It's worth noting how much actual political power the right in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. The Senate and electoral college favor them massively. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to change any laws that might counter their preferences.

The electoral college actually favored Biden this time. He got 57% of EC votes, which is much higher than his share of the popular vote.

This is all pointless anyway for a union of states. Germany is underpowered compared to Luxembourg in the EU by design -- the same is true in the US. Should California ever go back to being conservative, as it was until Clinton, it will disadvantage Republicans just the same.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#153

Post by soperj » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

mercurialshark wrote: post #110

acdha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain?

Sure, I'll circle back with a longer form response in a few minutes. In the meantime, I find it interesting that people think down voting my comment will intimidate me into changing the analysis. That's not how legal judgment works. That's not how anything works...

@mecurialshark, likely has nothing to do with trying to change your opinion. Likely has more to do with you posting your credentials as a reason to trust you but giving us nothing more than that.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#154

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

Tokkemon wrote: post #97

nostromo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

I'd love to live in your reality, but it ain't true. The left isn't the ones storming the Capitol.

[deleted]

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#155

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #138

tptacek wrote: post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

IANAL and I'm not saying I disagree with your conclusion, but I do think the case is more interesting than just AWS booting a malicious customer (with regards to their TOS). > there's the fact that AWS doesn't host Twitter's feed This is funny (as in, LOL funny) to point out because it makes parler seem completely inept, but it's only technically correct. They just negotiated a fat contract to host twitter, and that'…

> parler can make an interesting case about AWS picking a winner and damaging a loser

Parler made this specific allegation under the Sherman Act. It was rejected because "Parler...proffered only faint and factually inaccurate speculation in support of a Sherman Act violation. AWS, in contrast...submitted sworn testimony disputing Parler’s allegations." That said, Parler "has not yet had an opportunity to conduct discovery," so maybe there's a bombshell text somewhere.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#156

Post by duxup » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

scohesc wrote: post #100

duxup wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'free speech platforms' almost always skew towards the extremest side (more so over time)and aren't anything about the benefits we think of when it comes to free speech, lots of ideas that can be discussed, and we can think about and learn from. I wonder how that can be avoided.

Unfortunately, I don't think it can be avoided - you can't have freedom of speech without having the worst of the worst be able to speak. I dislike the people that support facist, racist beliefs, but I 100% will defend their right to say such things. In my opinion, once you start talking about restricting speech, you get into the grey area - who decides what speech to restrict? Off the top of my head, the most "capab…

I worry less about having the worst of the worst speak, as it is platforms inevitably trend extreme as folks either drop off or are pushed out and the result is just a one sided platform without some heavy handed moderation.

Here's I think the real issue, we make discussion platforms... people don't want to discuss. They just want to put up and push posters of what they believe.

And we're surprised when things go wrong.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#157

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

HALtheWise wrote: post #126

tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of Parler directly contravenes the AWS AUP, which demands that companies ensure their users comply with AWS's AUP and that companies kick users that don't. The whole point of Parler is to host Twitter users who violate Twitter's TOS, which is a cohort significantly comprised of people who are also violating AWS's TOS. To believe that Parler would have been viable on AWS to begin with, they had to actively…

Does anyone know how the AUP of Amazon and other services interacts with E2E encryption? For example, Signal uses AWS to host many of there servers, if Amazon discovers that people are using Signal to share unsightly content, can the demand that Signal kick those users off the platform? If Signal's processes and technology aren't capable of doing so, can AWS demand they change that?

Twitter signed a big contract with AWS immediately prior to Amazon killing one of Twitter's competitors (Parler). And Twitter has a serious problem with child trafficking, open support for calls to violence, etc.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#158

Post by jki275 » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #93

jki275 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 Senators are Democrats or caucus with them, and the Electoral college just put a Democrat in the White House -- so you can't really make such a claim with a straight face.

I said "favors". The 50 Democratic Senators represent 40m more people than the 50 Republican Senators. It's far easier for the balance to tip right than left. The electoral college was decided by about 40k votes this time, and about 80k votes last time. The popular vote margin was in the millions. That should tell you something about how far the EC is from reality.

"popular vote" has absolutely no bearing on anything in this discussion. The US is not a direct democracy, it is a representative republic.

The 50 senators who represent semi-conservative states represent the same number of states as the 50 who represent more liberal states.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#159

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

cairoshikobon wrote: post #81

triceratops wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting how much actual political power the right in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. The Senate and electoral college favor them massively. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to change any laws that might counter their preferences.

Banning speech by half the population is not "soft power" anymore in the world we live in.

That'd be true, if it happened.

Plenty of conservatives left on Twitter.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#160

Post by _dw7s » Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #42

throwaway45349 wrote: post #5

As much as I don't like Parler's digital death sentence from Silicon Valley, they should've known this was coming and prepared. It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Yes it's unfair that Twitter gets away with hosting way worse content, but life is unfair, that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand an…

It's worth noting how much soft power the political left in America has, despite being about 50% of voters. Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left. This means you should expect to have an uphill battle if you want to do anything in these areas that might counter their preferences. I think all this soft power actually hurts the left in America, because our country's default state is a bi…

> Hollywood, Silicon Valley, academia, and the news media all lean left.

citation needed.

Silicon Valley is a monument to capitalism and most if not all entrepreneurs lean libertarian.

As for the news media, as an example, Fox News has the highest viewership in the US. And for the others, ever thought about why you're not seeing a lot of coverage about unions/worker rights/worker strikes? Don't mistake anti-Trump rhetoric with 'left leaning'..

So I'm not sure we're you're getting your 'data' from.