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AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

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Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#81

Post by majormajor »

weego wrote: post #58
markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

It feel like live by the sword, die by the sword to me. Elastic because a highly successful business off the product being open source and then leveraging that into funding and enterprise licensing and maintenence. To turn around after and go 'we love open source... No not like that' is disingenuous at best. The license choice was always yours to make, you took the one that gave you the best growth model that got you…

Nothing about the new ES license would've prevented me from using it for free in the previous places I've used it for free, as far as I can tell.

Yet it would've prevented AWS from undercutting their paid offering in the place I'm at now that would rather pay for it than self-host it.

The lesson I'm taking away from this is just use a license like they're using now from day 1. Totally "open" open source only works if everyone is a good actor, which was never a realistic assumption, but it took a while for that naivety to cost so much, I guess.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#82

Post by MisterPea »

mminer237 wrote: post #55
markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

Obviously Amazon has the legal right to make a fork, but I think it's understandable why people would still prefer that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

This is the whole point of open source. Every contributor to something like Kafka or numpy is not expecting a cut from the thousands of companies that use it.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#83

Post by __blockcipher__ »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #19
PradeetPatel wrote: post #2

>Instead, new versions of the software will be offered under the Elastic License (which limits how it can be used) or the Server Side Public License (which has requirements that make it unacceptable to many in the open source community). I'm a bit out of the loop here, can someone please tell me why Elastic decided to enact this seemingly Anti-OSS license?

Rightly or wrongly, they are joining a long line of OSS maintainers trying to protect themselves from the clouds profiting from them. It seems reasonable to me at least to say: you can use this software for free, but you can't resell it. If you want professional support, please support someone who is maintaining the software.

> It seems reasonable to me at least to say: you can use this software for free, but you can't resell it. If you want professional support, please support someone who is maintaining the software.

Well, first of all I disagree that that's reasonable, but let's be clear here:

any license with a non-commerciality provision is not open source. This is explicitly part of the open source definition:

https://opensource.org/osd

> 6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

> The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research.

This is why Elasticsearch and Kibana are no longer open source; you have a choice of two proprietary licenses if you want to use their version.

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#84

Post by cosmodisk »

mminer237 wrote: post #55
markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

Obviously Amazon has the legal right to make a fork, but I think it's understandable why people would still prefer that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

How so? If the licence permits free copy/fork/whatever it's all great to expect some return but surely it's not guaranteed?

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#85

Post by MattGaiser »

mminer237 wrote: post #55
markphip wrote: post #27

I do not get why people are coming down on AWS here. Elastic made the software available under the Apache License. That gives AWS the right to offer this service. Maybe they did not have right to trademarks, there are courts to settle that. AWS contributes improvements to the project. This is just about Elastic and their business model. They could have not made it open source and it probably just would not have been…

Obviously Amazon has the legal right to make a fork, but I think it's understandable why people would still prefer that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

> that the people who actually did the innovation and the majority of the work get their cut of the insane profits AWS is making.

So legally open source but socially closed source/non-commercial use?

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#86

Post by driverdan »

juanbyrge wrote: post #32

The audacity of these AWS folks patronizing elastic about open source despite AWS making millions of dollars off of their open source project just reeks of entitlement. Glad I am never going to use AWS.

This is satire right? Do you say the same thing about Linux? nginx? WordPress?

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#87

Post by franklampard »

iimblack wrote: post #38
mirthflat83 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t want that, maybe don’t open source your code with a license that allows others to do that?

Elastic are alleging that Amazon abused the Elasticsearch trademark and stole code from the proprietary (not open-source) part of their product. > I took a personal loan to register the Elasticsearch trademark in 2011 believing in this norm in the open source ecosystem. Seeing the trademark so blatantly misused was especially painful to me. Our efforts to resolve the problem with Amazon failed, forcing us to file a l…

And therefore stop being open source?

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#88

Post by [deleted] »

iimblack wrote: post #38
mirthflat83 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t want that, maybe don’t open source your code with a license that allows others to do that?

Elastic are alleging that Amazon abused the Elasticsearch trademark and stole code from the proprietary (not open-source) part of their product. > I took a personal loan to register the Elasticsearch trademark in 2011 believing in this norm in the open source ecosystem. Seeing the trademark so blatantly misused was especially painful to me. Our efforts to resolve the problem with Amazon failed, forcing us to file a l…

[deleted]

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#89

Post by rdtsc »

crb002 wrote: post #6

Elastic was suing them for trademark breach. Hosting didn't bother them - it is FOSS. Lying that they were in partnership with Elastic did.

That's the interesting thing to me, why they were so openly dishonest about it. https://twitter.com/Werner/status/649738362086027265

---

Introducing the Amazon Elasticsearch service, a great partnership between @elastic and #AWS

---

How was it a "great partnership" if one side didn't even know about it...

Re: AWS announces forks of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#90

Post by justizin »

sg47 wrote: post #75
weego wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feel like live by the sword, die by the sword to me. Elastic because a highly successful business off the product being open source and then leveraging that into funding and enterprise licensing and maintenence. To turn around after and go 'we love open source... No not like that' is disingenuous at best. The license choice was always yours to make, you took the one that gave you the best growth model that got you…

Amazon has not been contributing back to the open source projects when they offer a service based on it. E.g. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/big-data/performance-updates-to... Amazon EMR release 5.24.0 includes several optimizations in Spark that improve query performance. Why have these optimizations not been contributed back to the community?

because then you wouldn’t have been quietly walked into vendor lock-in which extends beyond the software license to the hardware you’re leasing!
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