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Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

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Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you saw the amount of left-wing content calling for the execution of politicians, calling for communist revolutions, you wouldn't be asking this question. Twitter is just as toxic as Parler, except one is left-wing and the other is right-wing. If it was the left being censored I would be outraged on their behalf as well. Edit: Not if, when the left gets censored by big tech, I will stand for freedom of speech with…

You're completely ignoring the catalyst for this was that a governement insurrection where 5 people, including some cops, were murdered was planned very heavily and also broadcasted on this service.

The capitol stuff was organised on Facebook, not Parler: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25776225

What about the Summer violence from BLM? Dozens of people died, with Twitter being used as a communications hub to attack specific individuals.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#172
post #54

I've been trying to come to grips with the societal impact of echo chambers, "hate" speech, and the obligations vs. rights of sites and hosting providers. So far, my take is that websites have less obligation than hosting. It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues - I am leaning more and more to the idea that colos, IaaS and ISPs should be considered common carriers, and that only a c…

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues I'm sorry for the caps but you and a host of others are forgetting something repeatedly and it's getting fairly annoying: AMAZON HAS FREE SPEECH RIGHTS TOO. Just as Parler does, and you do, and I do, and Twitter does, and the various owners and employees of these organizations do, and on and on. It's Free Speech all the way down. And a funda…

I feel like if some religious nut has to make a gay wedding cake then Amazon has to serve websites for their political enemies. This is a moral statement and not a legal one.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have traded freedom for convenience over the past couple of decades and it shows. I'd argue the completely other way: people have traded convenience for freedom. The convenience of using the Internet for has massively eroded freedom of speech. It's been immensely convenient for tens of thousands of people to be able to say any kind of harmful trash on the Internet without suffering any negative consequences…

Another problem is the term 'harm' (just like 'freedom of speech') has also been poisoned by those on the left who would have you believe words are more dangerous than actual violence. When actual discussions and conversations cannot take place under the guise of pretend harm, real violence happens. I do wholeheartedly believe the attack on the capitol is just the result of a disenfranchised part of the population wh…

I wholeheartedly believe the attack on the capitol is the result of racism and hatred being spewed unchecked on Twitter and Facebook (and other smaller platforms). The loudness and accessibility of it worked to recruit susceptible people building a small group of angry people into a movement.

If anything, the problem is that they weren't deplatformed early enough.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#174
post #2

Here's the denial of the TRO: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qhXD-4Kaw5dCEBv0dUM8buygEKg... Parler hasn't lost the case, just a TRO that demands reinstatement on AWS, but the ruling on the TRO requires the judge to tip their hand about the case, and Parler is going to lose. I don't think you even need to read the AWS AUP to know that Parler has no real case here. To buy Parler's contract claim, you'd have to believ…

This is crazy, it proves the censorship and corruption runs deeper than just some tech CEOs.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#175
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't take a genius to know that such a controversial website is going to get dropped, even if it's just because it makes the webhost look bad. Parler wasn't dropped for making Amazon look bad. Parler was dropped for repeatedly failing to address blatant terms of service violations. AWS still hosts the National Enquirer, the magazine that literally tried to blackmail Jeff Bezos. AWS is hardly in the habit of r…

If you listen to Parler's CEO arguing about being shut down[0] (interview with Megyn Kelly), he was saying that their tech rep at Amazon gave no hints that they were in danger of being shut down. It sounded like they were doing a decent job and they tried to remedy Amazon's issues, but Amazon wanted nothing to do with them anymore. EDIT: to add, this is just his take. There is obviously 2-sides to the story, so hard…

> he was saying that their tech rep at Amazon gave no hints that they were in danger of being shut down

And I wouldn't expect them to do so! They're a tech rep, not a legal rep.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative framing: 1. Republican party threatens teach industry with heavy regulation if they censor to the degree that the tech industry wishes to. 2. Republican party looses power. 3. Major companies in the tech industry do what they wanted to do the whole time. At what point is (1) a first amendment issue? The government shouldn't pressure private companies to do things that violate those groups first amendme…

This would be an issue, but I dispute point 1 because the leaders of the tech industry would very much like to wash their hands of politics and be seen as neutral platforms so they can save money on moderation. Most of these same platforms pretty much had an anything goes unless it's illegal attitude from the time they were started until a few years ago when they started getting a lot of political blowback and blame…

They can't sell ads next to terroristic threats or other forms of extremism. So they would absolutely need to moderate even without political pressure.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropped by Amazon, in coordination with both App Stores just as it reached #1 ranked app. Really really interesting.

Not everything is a grand conspiracy. Sometimes society really isn't okay with what you're doing.

It's not society not being okay with they are doing that makes it intersting.

It's that the subjects of multiple anti-trust probes and companies known for on the down colluding in the past happened to be the ones pulling the plug.

You can argue it was "everyone" having a problem with it, but keep in mind that the Valley is not "everyone". That's the funny thing about conspiracies. Everyone whose in on it flatly denies it, even when it is obvious.

Not saying there was one mind. Just pointing out that assuming "management in the Valley" who have go/no-go on firing customers equates to "everyone" not being okay with it. It does not build confidence to many when unilateral decisions by execs shape the landscape for everyone else. Also yes, some of that population who aren't okay with that likely buy in to more conspirarial thought as well. Doesn't change the facts of the matter.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#178
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It concerns me that AWS booted a site off their platform for speech issues I'm sorry for the caps but you and a host of others are forgetting something repeatedly and it's getting fairly annoying: AMAZON HAS FREE SPEECH RIGHTS TOO. Just as Parler does, and you do, and I do, and Twitter does, and the various owners and employees of these organizations do, and on and on. It's Free Speech all the way down. And a funda…

If what users on, say Twitter say constitute it “saying something” then perhaps it should remove the standard disclaimer of how the opinions expressed thereon are that of their users, and not their own, and be held personally liable for what is posted on there. When it suit these platforms, they claim that the opinions are of their users and not their own, yet when it otherwise suit them, they claim ownership.

>If what users on, say Twitter say constitute it “saying something” then perhaps it should remove the standard disclaimer of how the opinions expressed thereon are that of their users, and not their own, and be held personally liable for what is posted on there.

Why? Hacker News, or Twitter, can say things for itself, and it can also host other people's opinions. There is no collision there. Twitter has Free Speech rights, and is responsible for, whatever it says itself. Twitter also has the Free Speech right to support, or not, anything it likes since it is in no way quasi-governmental. It doesn't owe anyone a soap box. And there is no reason it should be held liable for what users say, the users who say those things should be held liable.

>When it suit these platforms, they claim that the opinions are of their users and not their own

The law, and common sense as well is clear. Words of their users are not, in fact, theirs. The only thing regular law gives them is protection from not being completely perfect in their attempts at exercising their own Free Speech vs other people on their own property, rather than having to use Common Carrier all-or-nothing. But they could ban whomever they liked regardless.

>yet when it otherwise suit them, they claim ownership.

Specify. They own their own words and their own resources, and necessarily users must offer them at least a limited non-exclusive license for reproduction due to copyright. That is a fair tradeoff offer for what their users gain, and everyone may accept, or not.

Which ones "claim ownership" of other people's words and how? They don't need any ownership for bans, because nobody is entitled to their support.

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you saw the amount of left-wing content calling for the execution of politicians, calling for communist revolutions, you wouldn't be asking this question. Twitter is just as toxic as Parler, except one is left-wing and the other is right-wing. If it was the left being censored I would be outraged on their behalf as well. Edit: Not if, when the left gets censored by big tech, I will stand for freedom of speech with…

You're completely ignoring the catalyst for this was that a governement insurrection where 5 people, including some cops, were murdered was planned very heavily and also broadcasted on this service.

Glenn Greenwald reports that the planning was actually done mostly on Facebook and Youtube, not Parler: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/how-silicon-valley-in-a-sho...

Re: Judge refuses to reinstate Parler after Amazon shut it down

#180
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of Parler directly contravenes the AWS AUP, which demands that companies ensure their users comply with AWS's AUP and that companies kick users that don't. The whole point of Parler is to host Twitter users who violate Twitter's TOS, which is a cohort significantly comprised of people who are also violating AWS's TOS. To believe that Parler would have been viable on AWS to begin with, they had to actively…

I get it, companies do not legally have to provide these services to right-wing groups persecuted off of Twitter. I'm saying that it's _morally_ wrong to deplatform. Not necessarily because I enjoy having this speech hosted, but because isolating and pushing out so called "deplorables" is escalating the current American political conflicts to serious violence. As I said in my other comment, when the disenfranchised c…

> If you disagree with these people, say that to them

That doesn't seem to be working in a post-truth world. Not sure what the solution is, but this isn't nearly enough.

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