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New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

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Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#171

Post by cbozeman »

hobofan wrote: post #115
ignoramous wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Calling me a moron is one thing, but accusing me of having an MBA is really too much." -pg, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10670

Damn, that whole comment section is an amazing time capsule of sentiment regarding Microsoft and other tech companies! Well worth a read.

This comment is amazing...

"Microsoft recently came to my graduate school to recruit for user experience design and user experience research positions. 10 folks out of my program (about 25% of us) scored and interview. Every single one of us had no intention of working for Microsoft and joked about it intensely. Microsoft had be relegated to the realm of other boring places to do our type of work but that you interview at for practice (and, you know, just in case that job at google doesn't pan out).

In my interview, the topic of digg.com came up and neither interviewer had heard of them. I said they were like a type of slahsdot, or maybe magnolia. Never heard of those either I quipped "oh, maybe you're not involve much in the web / web development world".

"Actually, I'm one of the project managers for Internet Explorer."

The interview went downhill, from Microsoft, from that point forward. My heart wasn't even in it "just in case" anymore."

Hard to believe Microsoft was so utterly reviled by competent people in 2007. Nowadays I look at some of the things they're doing (mostly Surface line) and I would love to be involved with that. I feel like, even though they're not always hitting the bullseye, Microsoft is really aiming for the target with Surface devices. I know the Surface Duo got a lot of hate, and I really wanted to get one, but I feel like it just isn't "there" yet. Microsoft has been on that sort of track record for the past 5 years or so... the first version of a new product is a little questionable, the second is decent enough, but the third iteration, they're really nailing it.

My Surface Book 3 is the best laptop I have ever owned, and I've had many.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#172

Post by Jtsummers »

giantg2 wrote: post #150
UncleOxidant wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been approached by headhunters for contract work at Intel. They want all kinds of machine learning knowledge & experience and the pay is.... $45/hr. I kid you not. I just sort of laugh and tell them that that's about 1/3 of market rate for that kind of thing.

Wow. I make less than $45/hr (salary with extra hours dragging it down further, but with benefits). Edit for background: I have 9 years experience, an MSIS working at a financial company.

Financial companies, pharmaceutical companies, automotive companies, aircraft (component or manufacturing) companies. They all fail to understand the criticality of software and IT to their long term objectives, and greatly undervalue people in those fields.

A recurring issue I've found is, "Jack the EE picked up programming in a week, why are you worth as much or more than him when you aren't even a 'real' engineer?" Substitute another field for EE based on industry. Software is simultaneously too easy for them to take seriously, and too hard for them to fathom its depths.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#173

Post by djrogers »

ptmcc wrote: post #159
giantg2 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I make less than $45/hr (salary with extra hours dragging it down further, but with benefits). Edit for background: I have 9 years experience, an MSIS working at a financial company.

If that's as a developer in a US city that's pretty underpaid

Note he's salaried, that's not contract rates. Salaried employees also get health, 401k, ESPP, and other benefits that contract workers have to cover themselves - not to mention self employment taxes etc.

He may still be underpaid, but it's not apples/apples.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#174

Post by abecedarius »

sokoloff wrote: post #45
alisonkisk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs, already legendary for avoiding paying engineers for their contributions, organized an industry-wide cartel to hold down wages, and he never had an MBA. It's a bad leadership thing, not an MBA thing.

It's not bad leadership to hold down the costs of your key inputs. It's bad leadership to do that if doing so undermines the position of your company in the market. The handful of Apple engineers I know are incredibly happy and devoted to their work at Apple and being paid 50% more to work for Google would feel like a step backward to them. That, in combination with their business results is, to me, evidence of excel…

Separate the wage-fixing cartel from the rewarding work. Both may reduce the wages they have to offer, yet neither action requires the other. One of them is good, the other unethical and illegal.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#175

Post by cbozeman »

avs733 wrote: post #118
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

This is an encouraging move. My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. I've been part of a similar downhill slide at a smaller company in the billion dollar revenue range. To be blunt, once the [mediocre] MBAs start realizing that the engineers are getting paid more…

I worked in an Intel Fab for a couple years. I walked out the door of Intel one day in 2011 (longer and irrelevant story). Within a week I had a job offer in hand from a competitor for over 2x the money.

>> I walked out the door of Intel one day in 2011 (longer and irrelevant story).

I am extremely interested in this long and irrelevant story.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#176

Post by walshemj »

giantg2 wrote: post #148
staticautomatic wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headhunters for contract work at one FAANG company offer me $50 an hour for gigs utilizing the same skill set I’ve billed them $500 an hour for in the past.

"I’ve billed them $500 an hour for in the past" !!!...

I know someone who (CTO) Billed several k for an hours consultation on 4G

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#177

Post by throwaway0a5e »

giantg2 wrote: post #165
bryant wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For unsteady contracted project work, this doesn't sound off the mark for high-value niche skillsets at a senior or principal level. I wouldn't expect FAANGs to pay it for steady work, though. Well, Netflix might come close. I can count two principal-level architects pulling north of 700k/y, but I doubt they work just 40 hours a week.

I just have trouble wrapping my head around how someone can be that valuable. I'll never even hit $75/hr (excluding inflation).

It's not unheard of to give people who were party to the creation of some critical thing the company does pay that simply can't be matched elsewhere in order to make them stick around. Usually you pair it with a fancy title like "global architect" or some other mumbo jumbo like that. Pretty much any time you hear about someone making 500k+ without being personally responsible for the success or failure of a heck of a lot of stuff it's a role like that.

Think of it as a $200k salary with $500k of "just to ensure you won't find a better offer elsewhere" on top.

These aren't the kind of roles you can work your way into. You have to be in the right place at the right time and be there for a long time.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#178

Post by trhway »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #9

This is an encouraging move. My secondhand understanding was that Intel was losing top talent due to pressure to pay closer to median industry compensation. Top engineers recognized they were underpaid and left the company. I've been part of a similar downhill slide at a smaller company in the billion dollar revenue range. To be blunt, once the [mediocre] MBAs start realizing that the engineers are getting paid more…

>to offer high compensation. I'm hoping that's part of what's happening here.

so, the new old guys are brought in at market and higher - otherwise how you'd bring them in? - ie. it sounds like at the scale of at least 3x+ of the current engineering comp at Intel. Lets see how that would sit the the current engineers at Intel. I don't think it would result in high collaboration and team cohesion.

Also Intel issue seems to be process node, not the "architecture" per.se., and one can wonder how several years gap may affect one's utility at solving intricate issues of current node.

Anyway, fab to fabless is a classic paradigm shift , and Intel just fails to grasp it and to adapt.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#179

Post by walshemj »

pvarangot wrote: post #110
mc32 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes recruiters get things wrong, mix things up. That might have been for a different position that got redefined without commensurate pay adjustment. That said, 45 is really low for any position in an engineering company, unless it’s ancillary support services that get farmed out. Something like ‘Lab Admin’ type of thing.

I don't think it is. I got approached by consulting companies and recruiters to work on embedded development for Intel, including on-site work in Santa Clara, CA and travel to Asia. The hourly rate was 60 and days in Asia were 250 each plus accommodations. I've never done a trip to Asia were I was working less than 10 hours per day.

That's cheap 20 years ago I looked at a secondment in Malaysia and that was full ride tax free expat - house and servants! provided.

Re: New Intel CEO rehiring retired CPU architects

#180

Post by cbozeman »

fermienrico wrote: post #167
mywittyname wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their work is valuable but they’re entirely replaceable. Intel is replaceable.

Sorry, I’m not sure if I follow your point? Basically, I was saying that top-engineers are irreplaceable but they need replaceable engineers to execute menial, boring, repetitive work. There is a lot of this to be done.

His point is, when you go from being practically the only game in town in 2014, to being a joke-ass also-ran "competitor" being trounced by the underdog processor company[0] who damn near went bankrupt and had to sell their fab just to stay afloat; and when your two biggest allies 1) make their own System-on-a-Chip that fucking slaughters your best offerings in a ton of benchmarks and real world tests, and also does it on 1/4th the power[1] and 2) is actively working with another company to also make their own System-on-a-Chip that you can be damn sure will also go into, not only their premium tablet and laptop line, but likely also their cloud service division [2], you had better shape your ass up with a quickness and do whatever you need to do before you end up a footnote of history.

[0] - AMD

[1] - Apple

[2] - Microsoft

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