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Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#851

It's weird to see the Republican party embrace intellectual property theft. Levandowski stole from his employer and his colleagues at Google to enrich himself at Uber. Why would that possibly be worth a pardon?

I think some of it might be just schadenfreude for Google mixed with Uber’s prop 22 pretending to be for the “free market”.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#852
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, but as with many things in the US constitution, the reason the President can pardon people is because it's a modified copy of the British constitutional system of the time. The House is Parliament, the Senate is the House of Lords, and the president can pardon people because King George III could and the office of the presidency is a limited term elected kingship. Executive orders are Royal…

While pardon power originated from British law, the reason we kept it was what the OP referred to (see the federalist papers [1]). When forming the government the founders didn't just blindly copy British government. There was a lot of debate over what to keep and what to omit (For example, we don't have a king. Presidents were seen as servants not as rulers). Pardon power is mostly a direct copy of British pardon po…

The pardon power should obviously at this point be severely limited, it has a purpose, but clearly its major use is corruption or the threat of corruption in order to secure deals. So many modern presidents have used it to do crimes and then pardon their helpers.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#853

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That made sense before nearly everything was declared interstate commerce. The federal government now directly affects people on an individual level in a way it did not when the system was originally formed.

If that's the issue then surely it's easier to reverse the judicial precedent than to amend the constitution.

My understanding is the vast majority of Americans are in favour of harmonization at a federal level. In the original days of the USA I think citizens identified more with their state than the country as a whole. Outside of Texas that is no longer the case.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#854
post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On nixon: might well be. But it's never happened so far, and that's because congress is hyper deadlocked by design and a ridiculously high bar of non-proportionally-represented senators need to agree to convict. Just compare that to other democracies that can switch their executive with a simple majority in one house, yet remain stable. As to congresses deadlock being a feature: it may well have been intentional; but…

> The US has a solid set of traditions and an extremely civic culture; and that's why it works IMO this is something that I wish more citizens understood. They put way too much faith in the Constitution and don't realize that it's the tradition, the mythology of America that really holds this country together. If we lose that, we lose everything, and the Constitution won't save us.

I mean, it would help if people didn't confuse the federal-level instantiations of social norms with restrictions on the power of said government specifically, too...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue you're referring to with the Senate is, of course, the fact that each state gets two senators, regardless of population. This means that the sparsely populated North Dakota has the same number of senators as California. This a feature, not a bug, and in fact the United States would not exist without it. The senate prevents small states from being dominated by large states, and is the only reason that smalle…

> If we were to alter this configuration of the Senate, the same question would undoubtedly arise--why should small states like North Dakota, Vermont, and Oklahoma remain in the Union, only to be dictated to by the citizens of Florida, New York and California? I don't know why this is a valid argument, when you can turn it on it's head. Why should states like Florida, Texas, New York and California, who (1) have the…

Because of the resources those states provide. In almost all cases, resources (food, minerals, oil, energy) flow from those more sparsely populated states to feed, fuel, etc. the more densely populated ones.

If you think NYC could be supported purely by NY state alone (or frankly even just 'Blue' states), you'd be in for a rude shock.

That much of the value add/economic activity happens in the more densely populated states isn't that surprising - but cutting off the midwest from the rest of the United States would cause catastrophic famine in very short order, to name one example.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pardon people before they're convicted of anything. Trump pardoned Steve Bannon for example and he has not yet been convicted (he has been charged). Assange has been charged with various things by the Feds, which is what Trump would pardon. The floated theory went that Trump could plausibly pardon himself as well, for any likely future charges.

It's questionable if you can pardon yourself or your coconspirators, and you specifically can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. The pardon power is absolute, greater than laws that define specific crimes, and doesn't require accepting guilt or whatever.

> you specifically can’t pardon yourself for things you were impeached for.

The pardon power applies to offenses against the US “except in cases of impeachment” (Art. II § 2 ¶ 1). This uncontroversially means a pardon cannot affect the process of impeachment in the House and trial on charges of impeachment in the Senate. It is disputed whether it also somehow prevents pardons for criminal charges relating to the same act for which the recipient was impeached. The issue has never come up in a nontheoretical sense, so an authoritative resolution hasn’t been handed down.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's questionable if you can pardon yourself or your coconspirators, and you specifically can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. The pardon power is absolute, greater than laws that define specific crimes, and doesn't require accepting guilt or whatever.

>It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. For a specific example, Jimmy Carter pardoned everyone who dodged the draft for Vietnam[1]. This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people. I think one of the only limits on the pardon power is that it can only apply to past behavior. [1] https://www.justice.gov/pardon/vietn…

> This showed that pardons could both apply to actions which hadn't been charged and categories of people.

It doesn't actually show that because the legal effect of thar pardon has never been challenged. If no one tries to charge someone subject to a pardon, or that pardon recipient never offers the pardon against the charges, nothing is resolved about the validity and effect of the pardon.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's questionable if you can pardon yourself or your coconspirators, and you specifically can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for. It's not questionable if you can pardon things that haven't been charged yet. You can. The pardon power is absolute, greater than laws that define specific crimes, and doesn't require accepting guilt or whatever.

> can't pardon yourself for things you were impeached for That's because impeachment is a political process, not a judicial proceeding. Clemency does not affect impeachment.

That may be the rationale for the limit, but the legal reason is because the Constitution expressly limits the pardon power to exclude cases of impeachment.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#860
post #562
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This myth that the US constitution is in any way "good" is weird. It's one of the earliest; and fortunately others leared from its mistakes. Including the US itself, when it had considerable influence in drafting the WW2 losers constitutions, which uncoincidentally are quite different from the US. Checks and balances essentially don't work in the US. The best bit is simply a decent judiciary, but that was mostly copi…

> Checks and balances essentially don't work in the US. The best bit is simply a decent judiciary, but that was mostly copied from the British. And even that is more poorly executed than elsewhere, due to the political nature of judicial appointees, and esp. due to the tradition of direct elections of some judges. I'd say it's arguably worse than the British model it was copied from, not because the Brits were psychi…

You just saw the checks and balance function today - the sitting executive used every trick he could think of to keep himself in power. He was rejected by Congress (the other arm, who he does not control), and this was affirmed by the Judiciary (who he does not control because of the lifetime appointments and other history, despite appointing a number of people aligned with his party to it).

In many countries he could have just insisted (or tell a crony he insists) and that would have been that.

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