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Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#781

Post by coryfklein »

acdha wrote: post #774
coryfklein wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donald Trump is not the Republican party.

You can say that when any significant percentage don’t follow him in lockstep. Very few elected officials are willing to disagree with him in public, most backed dishonest claims or opposition to public health measures, and he has high approval ratings from Republican voters: it’s his party.

Yes, but in the context of presidential pardons there is nothing the GOP can do to either back the president or not back the president. It doesn't make sense to attribute presidential pardons to The Republican Party when there is a sole individual who decides who to pardon and why.

I'll point out that, now that Donald Trump is out of power, many in the GOP in general have been rather quick to turn their backs on him and outright criticize him. While he was in power, sure, Republicans politicians were politically savvy enough to side with him, knowing that the alternative was suicide. But there is now room to disagree with Trump and we're seeing many (like Mitch McConnell, and you don't get more Republican than him!) use that opportunity to distance themselves.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#782

Post by knuthsat »

xpe wrote: post #601
knuthsat wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that all a POTUS does after presidency is enrich oneself, it's quite clear where the motives are. The moment when POTUS is unable to profit off of his presidency is the moment where these things wouldn't happen. POTUS becoming a multimillionaire after presidency is just a sad display of moral corruption. Edit: Not talking about Trump, just in general about POTUS. It's my impression that in the last 50 years…

The argument that "all Presidents have imperfect morals" is obvious and uninteresting. The quality of "moral character" varies tremendously among people.

Should have worded is as "lack in moral character"

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#783

Post by gorgoiler »

TuringNYC wrote: post #355
gorgoiler wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not really interested in seeing Levandowski sent to jail either. People like him are a menace to society and shouldn’t be allowed to operate companies or deploy capital. Society blesses individuals with the privilege to form a company and in exchange those company officers are expected to make a net positive contribution to society. Jobs, investment, progress. If you fail to do that — through stealing, fraud, cor…

OK, but so many people go to prison for theft of much, much less. Why shouldn't he face at least that much justice?

It’s a good point. I’m resigned to the pardon happening, but won’t accept this person being allowed to run a business again in the future. That’s the line I draw in the sand, somewhat pragmatically.

There are certain positions of trust that hopefully they will not be able to hold.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#784

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

neilparikh wrote: post #669
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If he’d gone to a superior he’d be rotting in jail and we would have no evidence of mass surveillance in this country. Everyone says this but it's pure conjecture. We don't know what would have happened and now we never will.

There are known cases of people trying to raise concerns through the correct channels and still facing retaliation. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Drake

Okay? And people raise concerns that are taken seriously and do not face retaliation.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#785

Post by throwaway0a5e »

jdsully wrote: post #560
briandear wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal government is the government of the individual states. A state is a sovereign entity. Each vote in the United Nations general assembly is identical regardless of the size of the country voting. Ireland’s vote is just as valuable as India’s. That’s the point of the United States — it’s a republic, not a democracy. As far as 1 WY vote being worth 4 Texas votes, that’s also irrelevant because the president i…

That made sense before nearly everything was declared interstate commerce. The federal government now directly affects people on an individual level in a way it did not when the system was originally formed.

If that's the issue then surely it's easier to reverse the judicial precedent than to amend the constitution.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#786

Post by t-writescode »

dragonwriter wrote: post #161
jfk13 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the argument here is essentially that we should trust the president to know better than the legislature and courts, why don't we just go with absolute dictatorship for all purposes?

The power the President is entrusted with here is solely to remit punishment. The idea is that this is an area where going overboard is less harmful than the alternative.

To add, it's easier to throw somebody back in jail if they aren't rehabilitated than it is to get someone out of 400 year sentence if they are technically guilty, no matter how extreme or ridiculous the prison sentence is for the crime they committed.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#787

Post by postalrat »

jolmg wrote: post #755
s0cur10us wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under impression that the self-pardon story was part of the information warfare campaign. Is there any proof to the story?

"As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself" -- Donald Trump https://web.archive.org/web/20180604233027/https://twitter.c...

So he had no interest in pardoning himself because he did nothing wrong.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#788

Post by _qbjt »

barbacoa wrote: post #674
_qbjt wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump supporters have done nothing but alienate and engage in acts of harassment and violence against non-white folks, religious minorities and members of the LGBTQ community for the past 4-5 years. Should we be civil toward members of the KKK as well? Why is it always on us to be nice to people who hate us and want us dead?

Just like how you've been brainwashed by the TV into thinking the "others" are evil, trump people are brainwashed into thinking you hate them and want them dead. Both sides see themselves as the victim and the others as the attacker. >Why is it always on us to be nice to people who hate us and want us dead? Do you see how this is perpetuating the problem?

[dead]

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#789

Post by simonh »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #701
simonh wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, but as with many things in the US constitution, the reason the President can pardon people is because it's a modified copy of the British constitutional system of the time. The House is Parliament, the Senate is the House of Lords, and the president can pardon people because King George III could and the office of the presidency is a limited term elected kingship. Executive orders are Royal…

And the power of Congress to override the presidential veto is... what? Any time you create a second system, you can see similarities to the first system. That doesn't make it a "modified copy"; it makes it a "rewrite that has some similarities".

That's barely even a difference, the ultimate sovereignty of Parliament was established in the Civil War. We didn't need that mechanism because we had another end-run on the principle that the Sovereign cannot withhold consent against the advise of the Cabinet an d no sovereign ever did so since 1708.

As I said there are differences but the overall system is basically the same shape. Specifically the Presidential Veto wasn't conjured up out of thin air as a cunning plan to implement a system of checks and balances, it was just carried along with the general cut-and-paste.

The details do differ and have diverged over the centuries, for sure, but the basic executive role of the President in the US system today is that of George III in the 1770s. I also think there's a case to be made that the political relationships between your branches of government would be much more familiar to a 18th Century British politician than their contemporary counterparts.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Pardoned

#790

Post by t-writescode »

rsynnott wrote: post #252
t-writescode wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't problems with the power, they're problems with people that abuse the power. We've had presidential pardons for centuries, and they are both a carry-over from the time of kings, and they could arguably serve as a short-circuit against injustice at the hand of the legislature. Not everything illegal is wrong. Not everyone in prison is serving a just sentence, no matter what the legal system declares it to…

> they are both a carry-over from the time of kings That's kind of the problem, though. Most countries didn't carry them over in the same way. > Left in the hands of the legislature, no one would ever experience mercy. In countries with highly regulated pardon powers, some people are sometimes pardoned (though many countries lean more on the power of the courts to overturn convictions).

> though many countries lean more on the power of the courts to overturn convictions

What if someone _did_ commit the crime, and it's proven, but the sentence is wrong (way too extreme) or the crime is now seen as archaic?

Think old homosexuality laws or blasphemy laws.

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