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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#841

Post by philwelch »

lqet wrote: post #79
efwfwef wrote: post #21

If people had called one another to prepare this, would we say that the phone was responsible for the attack? And would we try to ban phones?

Phones don't broadcast. A small group of agitators could have used a pirate radio station to call for an attack on the capitol 50 years ago and reach millions of people, which is exactly why pirate radio stations are illegal.

Pirate radio stations are illegal because the radio spectrum is finite and without regulation, much of that spectrum would end up jammed and unusable. Pirate radio is illegal for approximately the same reason it’s illegal to drive on the wrong side of the road.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#842

Post by throwaway316943 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #807
throwaway316943 wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven’t drawn much attention from LE because they haven’t been a serious threat. I still don’t think they are. The Capitol security were overwhelmed by a massive protest providing cover for a large number of rioters to force their way in through unexpected routes. Those rioters were certainly a mix of malevolent and deluded but they were minimally violent considering the amount of opportunity and motive present.…

> They should still be prosecuted, just not for terrorism “Terrorism” isn't an actual crime you can be charged for regarding acts within the US (terrorism outside the US is a specific federal crime, as is material support for terrorism—the latter of which references knowing support for a wide range of crimes under the ambit of terrorism, a number of which seem not implausible to be justifiably charged against partici…

> “Terrorism” isn't an actual crime you can be charged for regarding acts within the US

Sounds like a case is being made for it, that’s what I’m concerned about. Those laws will be permanent and will continue to creep their way into daily life.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#843

Post by dragonwriter »

downandout wrote: post #839
alsetmusic wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a discussion with a parent who was distressed about Parler being deplatformed. She was never on it, but her choices of news media told her this was “bad”. I argued that threats of violence were viable on the platform. She didn’t seem to believe me. I later sent screenshots of violent rhetoric that I found with a quick web search. No response. There are people who refuse the validity of reality righ…

If you’re referring to me being silent, the discussion seems to have made my point for me. I didn’t see the need to further interject. But here’s my take... If you listen to mainstream media, you’ll see them telling their audience that Parler was “deplatformed” because the planning for the Capital attack occurred there - in fact you would get the impression that the planning only occurred there. Yet it turns out that…

> If you listen to mainstream media, you’ll see them telling their audience that Parler was “deplatformed” because the planning for the Capital attack occurred there

I do listen to, and read, mainstream media (and others), and I haven't seen that explanation. I've seen lots of people on the right attributing it vaguely to the MSM to lead into arguments against it, but that's the only place I've seen that explanation of the deplatforming, rather than the failure to moderate when unacceptable content was identified.

> in fact you would get the impression that the planning only occurred there.

Again, no, I've seen plenty of references to planning elsewhere, social media and otherwise, in the MSM. Again, this is a frequent thing I've seen people with a right-wing media preference attribute without detail to the MSM, but not actually seen in the MSM.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#844

Post by philwelch »

jjoonathan wrote: post #179
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage. On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election. In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case…

On the one hand, we have a large crowd of protesters you personally agree with, some of whom turned violent and whom you can surgically disavow. On the other hand, we have a large crowd of protesters you personally disagree with and treat as a monolith.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#845

Post by dragonwriter »

throwaway316943 wrote: post #842
dragonwriter wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should still be prosecuted, just not for terrorism “Terrorism” isn't an actual crime you can be charged for regarding acts within the US (terrorism outside the US is a specific federal crime, as is material support for terrorism—the latter of which references knowing support for a wide range of crimes under the ambit of terrorism, a number of which seem not implausible to be justifiably charged against partici…

> “Terrorism” isn't an actual crime you can be charged for regarding acts within the US Sounds like a case is being made for it, that’s what I’m concerned about. Those laws will be permanent and will continue to creep their way into daily life.

> Sounds like a case is being made for it, that’s what I’m concerned about

People have been called terrorists for domestic acts for decades without any effort at legislation to make that a specific chargeable crime, and nothing in the way people are referring to the insurrectionists at the Capitol as domestic terrorists is any different.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#846

Post by lenkite »

ceejayoz wrote: post #831
lenkite wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, actually an Antifa activist (who also came on CNN) was one of those charged for inciting the Capitol attack: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/utah-man-charged-federal-... https://www.newsweek.com/john-sullivan-capitol-attack-leftwi... With men like these deliberately egging on rioters, it's no wonder a protest turned violent.

One guy? This guy? > Activists in Utah have spent months condemning Sullivan, who has at turns identified himself as a racial justice protester and leftist documentarian, and they have warned others to be leery of his motives and any events he sponsored. > He held rallies featuring Black organizers. But attendees said one demonstration also featured members of the Proud Boys, an all-male extremist group with ties to…

We can keep arguing past each other or you can listen to his own speech delivered personally by him to know where his alignment truly lies:

https://www.air.tv/watch?v=wZAuX4HmTK6WCuGoqPLB4w

"We fought against white militia. [expletive]. We are going to rip Trump out of office. We are going to rip that [expletive]. "

The left may have abandoned this guy now after his arrest and are busy deflecting all association, but he was most definitely an "anti-trump" activist.

It takes just a couple of people to incite a riot honestly and this guy is an expert who was egging people on while standing safe.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#847

Post by philwelch »

dylan-m wrote: post #207
trident5000 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the verifiable facts again? Do you have alternative statistics because they're actually on the FBI website and contradict everything you're saying. The riots were most likely political AstroTurf before an election via amplification of convenient (and unfortunate/terrible) imagery to turn out voters. I hate to be stone cold but that's my understanding of what unfolded. We witnessed something similar in 2015.

I should add a caveat around "the BLM movement is about." One of its problems (like many progressive movements) is everyone has a different idea what it is about, and the mainstream media does not help with that in the slightest. So, the original idea there is police in the United States are killing black people for stupid reasons, which is true . There are no statistics to worry about for that one and there don't ne…

> they're going to tell you how the police in a developed country shouldn't act as if they're expecting a war.

Which gives me a bit of whiplash when I see many of those people outraged that the Capitol Police didn’t just start shooting indiscriminately into the crowd on 1/6.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#848

Post by meowster »

meowster wrote: post #708
tomp wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the biggest difference between successful breach of the Capitol and an unsuccessful attack on the White House is the defence? Clearly the attackers/rioters had malicious intent both times, clearly they very extremely violent. The only real difference is the success/failure of the security forces.

I don't read the news much, so this is the first I'm hearing of people attacking the White House. These supposedly Trump-supporters... were attacking Trump?

What am I doing wrong?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#849

Post by dragonwriter »

philwelch wrote: post #847
dylan-m wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should add a caveat around "the BLM movement is about." One of its problems (like many progressive movements) is everyone has a different idea what it is about, and the mainstream media does not help with that in the slightest. So, the original idea there is police in the United States are killing black people for stupid reasons, which is true . There are no statistics to worry about for that one and there don't ne…

> they're going to tell you how the police in a developed country shouldn't act as if they're expecting a war. Which gives me a bit of whiplash when I see many of those people outraged that the Capitol Police didn’t just start shooting indiscriminately into the crowd on 1/6.

> Which gives me a bit of whiplash when I see many of those people outraged that the Capitol Police didn’t just start shooting indiscriminately into the crowd on 1/6.

What I've seen is mostly people pointing to that response as proving police know how to respond nonviolently to mass, even violent, protests, and therefore that the reason they choose a different stance and response when, e.g., BLM is involved is racial bias, not neutral procedure.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#850

Post by philwelch »

germinalphrase wrote: post #409
nonce42 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The riots were most likely political AstroTurf before an election I noticed that that the BLM protests happened a few months before the 2016 election and then vanished. Then the same thing happened before the 2020 election. To make this quantitative, here's a Google Trends link: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

To be specific, the data shows Google search interest - not number of protest events. Protests are not necessarily “newsworthy”; however, that search interest would track media stirring up news before elections seems likely. Further, (and I say this as a Minneapolitan) the significant protests of this summer were very clearly and obviously precipitated by real world events, not astroturfed protest crowds.

One question is why and how certain specific real-world events go viral and others get memory-holed.

I would surmise that a lot of the protests this summer were, emotionally, a consequence of the stress, economic uncertainty, and way-too-online cabin fever of the early stages of the COVID epidemic.

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