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Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

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Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of paradigm shifts needed. In mainland China, people value outcome legitimacy rather than procedural legitimacy and freedom of speech. In other words: they care whether the government actually does a good job, rather than whether the procedure through which the government was selected is correct, or whether they could criticize Xi. How would the government get feedback then if people aren't allowed…

> The government monitors social media as well for grievances. I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day. You don't seem to know anything about modern China if you don't even know that. > After all, 2 generations ago the Chinese were dirt-poor. When I was born, food rationing still…

> I personally know people whose parents were stupid enough to go for such "anonymous grievance boxes" just to get a knock on the door from district committee enforcers the next day.

Okay, do tell. I'm being genuine here.

If those boxes are anonymous, why do they know who sent it?

What were the grievances? Why would they get in trouble?

What did the district committee enforces actually do?

How long ago was this?

> If Beijing ever cared about freedom from poverty, China wouldn't be so poor as a result of its actions.

> Then, why it is doing it?

That's a long list, let me go into a few.

North Korea is not an example of China exporting its governance model. If North Korea actually follows China's governance model it would be far more open than it is today. What happened is that during the Vietnam war, China allied with North Korea to prevent the Americans from setting up a base at the Chinese border. That's not "exporting governance model".

Naxalite: where's the evidence that this insurgency is supported by China. Just because they're Maoist doesn't mean China did this.

What do African countries have to do with this? Are you talking about this "debt trap" thing? China doesn't want African countries to default. China has even provided debt relief this year, without asking for anything in return.

China hasn't fired a bullet across its borders for over 30 years. That's more than I can say about the current hegemon.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#172
post #122

In the last Hacker News thread, people were so sure that the government jailed him for criticizing the party. Even though there was no evidence of such, people just assumed it MUST be true because the CCP MUST be evil. And before Jack Ma "disappeared", people were worried about Jack Ma and Ant Group being a national security threat, because of his ties with CCP. Because "CCP evil". No matter the facts, people just co…

Please don't do nationalistic flamewar on HN, regardless of what other people do. This is supposed to be a site for curious conversation across differences, even when the differences are deep and wide. High-indignation rhetoric makes that impossible. I've posted about this many times, including specifically on Chinese topics: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... (Also, please don't use allc…

Hi dang. I understand. It wasn't my intention to start a nationalistic flamewar, I'm just hoping to get people to understand China better so that the west and China can come together, which benefits everyone. But looking back at my comment, I can see how some of my pent-up frustration with past comments can come over as gaslighting. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#174

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196... . If you watch his…

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#175
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total bullshit. This is the CCP stepping on this man's throat.

You certainly don't understand 低调 and 闷声赚大钱. Ma learnt and adapted.

I mean, that's really the problem right there.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. And it is bad. The country run by a freaking communist party, if somebody didn't notice. And we are not even mentioning gulag, and hookers. > In contrast to China's reputation here in the west, the govt actually DOES listen to criticism. Because it is afraid of it? > The key is to be constructive, and to criticize policy rat…

Look, if you don't believe me, at least believe in Kishore Mahbubani, ex-Singapore diplomat and ex-UN Security Council head. He's spoken extensively about this in his book "Has China Won?" and can corroborate what I said. In the past 40 years, the freedoms of Chinese people have exploded. People could not choose what to wear, where to work, what to eat, where to live. Now they can. Millions travel world-wide every ye…

A bad party that is improving is still bad.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no, you don't go to jail for not toeing the party line. That's not how it works. No you don’t. But you might find your work visa renewal denied. Things can get inconvenient really quickly, as a foreigner you don’t want to be a grass mud horse while in China, river crab is the only way to go. > If you're Jeff Bezos and you piss off the guy in a government department... Then Jeff Bezos sues the government, which…

> No you don’t. But you might find your work visa renewal denied. Daniel Dumbrill, a vlogger in China, literally criticized the Guangzhou government for its negligent behavior against African workers. I did the same. We did this more than a year ago and we're both still fine. > Then Jeff Bezos sues the government, which is exactly what happened. You missed the point. You can't sue the government into continuing to do…

> You can't sue the government into continuing to do business with you.

You can do that actually.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/22/amazon-files-suit-protesting...

https://www.onmsft.com/news/corrected-evaluation-flaw-may-fa...

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#178
post #143
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why you’re being downvoted. Is it because it’s so accurate that it hurts or because it’s not?

Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ah sorry dang! Will take heed in future.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, I don't even consider myself particularly pro-CCP. But CCP is the only party that actually advances the interests of Chinese civilization. All the other parties only care about destroying CCP, no matter the negative consequences to Chinese society. Also, half of the reasons people use to oppose the CCP, are either false, or based on twisted half-truths. When I see such unwarranted attacks, how can I not…

That's an interesting insight — that the CCP is perhaps the best choice of many bad choices (the "lesser evil" as we say in the US). I do understand your perspective, but I respectfully disagree (though I do admit I don't know that much about how China really works). Of course, China is a developed economy, and there is a lot of really impressive and legitimate industry in China. The hardware markets of Shenzen, the…

Thanks for your perspective. I don't deny that China has many problems.

But on the topic of truth, some accusations against China are false. Are you willing to discuss them?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#180
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that from their several actions that China/CCP is not the best example of democracy and criticism acceptance So no I don't buy the retoric of misunderstood China > I am from China and I have family in China. So you're not behind the great firewall and don't need to contend with official internet censorship.

Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. We've had to ask you this many times. Nationalistic flamewar is particularly unwelcome here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry about this Dang, the line is blurry on some topics and sometimes we get carried over and go outside the topic of the conversation.
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