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Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

reuters.com

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Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#31

Post by chrischen »

sebmellen wrote: post #26
nickysielicki wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it matters that he's reading off of a script. Imagine Bezos in the same situation, do you honestly think he wouldn't delegate the responsibility of speechwriting to his team of publicists?

Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM . Ma looks the opposite here.

At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#32

Post by duxup »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #28
sebmellen wrote: post #5

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196... . If you watch his…

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

He could be running a wonky business financially, and a victim of something else.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#33

Post by throwaway88098 »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #20

In the last Hacker News thread, people were so sure that the government jailed him for criticizing the party. Even though there was no evidence of such, people just assumed it MUST be true because the CCP MUST be evil. And before Jack Ma "disappeared", people were worried about Jack Ma and Ant Group being a national security threat, because of his ties with CCP. Because "CCP evil". No matter the facts, people just co…

This is the best answer I've seen. HN however is not a place for unpopular (and true) insights. It'll be downvoted to oblivion.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#34

Post by nickysielicki »

sebmellen wrote: post #26
nickysielicki wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it matters that he's reading off of a script. Imagine Bezos in the same situation, do you honestly think he wouldn't delegate the responsibility of speechwriting to his team of publicists?

Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM . Ma looks the opposite here.

Like all real Americans, I hate all forms of communism and socialism, and I especially hate the evil Chinese communist party and their concentration camps, so I agree with your skeptical spirit.

It's not that I think the CCP wouldn't take him out if they could, it's that I don't think the CCP can politically afford to take out a widely popular multi-billionaire.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#36

Post by sebmellen »

chrischen wrote: post #31
sebmellen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM . Ma looks the opposite here.

At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.

Curious how so?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#37

Post by yadongwen »

echelon wrote: post #18
guerrilla wrote: post #16

Disappointingly paranoid comments jumping to conclusions here. It's equally possible that Ma's disappearance is self-imposed after making an out of character speech that was not well received by investors and regulators alike. We don't know either way at this point. To quote Leo Lewis of the FT: "His miscalculation now looks spectacular, even by his astral standards of showmanship." [1] 1. https://www.ft.com/content/…

Total bullshit. This is the CCP stepping on this man's throat.

You certainly don't understand 低调 and 闷声赚大钱. Ma learnt and adapted.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#38

Post by FooBarWidget »

throwaway88098 wrote: post #33
FooBarWidget wrote: post #20

In the last Hacker News thread, people were so sure that the government jailed him for criticizing the party. Even though there was no evidence of such, people just assumed it MUST be true because the CCP MUST be evil. And before Jack Ma "disappeared", people were worried about Jack Ma and Ant Group being a national security threat, because of his ties with CCP. Because "CCP evil". No matter the facts, people just co…

This is the best answer I've seen. HN however is not a place for unpopular (and true) insights. It'll be downvoted to oblivion.

I know. But I'm way past the point of being scared of that, or even caring. As a Chinese person I was scared of being lynched by the mob for speaking up (ironic isn't it, this is the so-called "free society" but apparently it only applies when you agree with the mob), but now I just think the truth must come out, and someone must push back against this insane, evidence-free anti-China hysteria.

Notice that I'm not even saying "CCP good". I just say "it's nuanced and complex, there are alternative points of view". Which is what most things in reality are. But when it comes to China, people will only allow simplifiying it to a cartoon villain.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#39

Post by echelon »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #28
sebmellen wrote: post #5

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196... . If you watch his…

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

> How much more mental gymnastics do we need?

> I am from China and I have family in China.

Would you publicly curse Xi and denounce the CCP?

Please realize also that many in the West (myself included) are freaking out about China and are trying to counter its rise. This is a narrative that fits into their world view.

I'm more worried about CCP fascism and hypersonic nukes than I am about climate change.

I'm worried about what happens when Chinese software developers outnumber us, and all of our tech has been cheaply duplicated and sold around the world. When we have no other advantage, what then? Do we implode?

I'm worried about our companies and politicians adopting capitalism and democracy with Chinese characteristics.

---

Edit: downvotes trigger HN's post filter, so I'm including my replies below

---

> That doesn't seem to fit the narrative that people have the agency to think differently from the status quo Americans would like to impose upon the world.

Last time I was in China, a good third of the people I spoke in depth with openly discussed the corruption and expressed dissenting views. This was in private, of course.

There were more than a few die-hard pro-CCP folks, but the talk of corruption was far more pervasive.

You're still probably right.

> Is this Great Replacement propaganda?

It does sound a little like it. That's not at all my intention.

I think it's appropriate to worry about a country copying tech that has a much larger, more productive population to sustain growth. Their protectionism doesn't help.

But really this is all rooted in the single-party fascism. I'd be fine if China were a democracy. I might even move there myself.

I don't care about my genes or my race or my progeny. I want the world to grow freer with every passing year. The CCP represents a major stumbling block in my worldview and sense of security.

> You sit down and try to succeed on merit rather than privilege for once in your life

Okay, that's a good point. But I'm working my ass off as it is, so I don't know how much latitude for adjustment I have here.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#40

Post by lxe »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #28
sebmellen wrote: post #5

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196... . If you watch his…

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

A Chinese person's perspective about China and its politics/government on HN/Reddit? Enjoy the following classics:

1) you're brainwashed.

2) how do you justify the human rights violations?

3) you're a CCP shill

4) Would you publicly curse Xi and denounce the CCP?

Good luck!

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