Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#681

Post by newbie789 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

rj_kidwin wrote: post #646

mrburkins wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue isn’t just police killing unarmed black people but also an incredibly large disparity in use of all physical force which your stats allude to: >This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important…

Further down in their comment they cite statistics about variant violent crime rates by race, where African Americans commit more than 50% of violent crime, which seems in line with your cited non-lethal force rates. Violent criminals receiving proportionate rates of violent force doesn't stand out as a disparity.

>African Americans commit more than 50% of violent crime,

Out of curiosity, I understand that you're simply citing statistics from a source but I'd like to know if you think this reflects reality? If so, what reason would you suggest creates this?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#682

Post by wtfiswiththis » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

zionic wrote: post #482

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

Patiently waiting for Apple and google to remove the facebook app, and AWS to... well... say they can’t join AWS someday.

You do understand that the same family that funded Cambridge Analytica like the user above mentioned is the one the funded Parler, the app you are talking about?

Maybe we should hold these people to account instead of trying to compare their projects to entities that are not as nearly as partisan by design as Mercer family projects are. They helped groom and incite so many people to radicalism, and we will be dealing with individuals flaming out for years.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#683

Post by snoshy » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #477

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took far right terrorism seriously in the 1870s. They more or less stamped out the (original) KKK while simultaneously giving the south the requisite autonomy to enact Jim Crow. Obviously Jim Crow doesn't square with our modern view but at the time the lack of some systemic way to keep the black people down was a serious grievance that a lot of people had. The government cracked down on the extremists who were s…

> he government never takes people's grievances seriously until there's a "real" threat of extremists getting off the porch I haven't noticed any gay-marriage terrorists on their porches, and yet here we are. Women-for-equal-pay have not been observed cleaning and oiling their rifles menacingly, and yet the law was mended in their favor. And I don't think Irish or Jewish terrorism was a problem in the US, but their p…

All of the examples you gave are of non-terroristic means of attempting to achieve the goals of a cause, where the groups involved generally lack violent extremists.

GP's point was about how they believe federal law enforcement has reacted to groups that necessarily included violent extremists, as those were the pawns for bargain to offer the opposition while reducing harm to the moderate sympathizers.

Yours appears to be a strawman argument.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#684

Post by alasdair_ » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #458

nostromo wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying something wasn't terrorism doesn't mean it wasn't unlawful or stupid or terrible. It just means it wasn't terrorism.

The definition - 'the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims' - seems to fit the event we're discussing.

Terrorism, by definition to many, requires the intentional infliction of terror to achieve those aims. That’s why it’s called “terrorism” rather than “political violence”

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#685

Post by bilbo0s » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

esyir wrote: post #580

bilbo0s wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think that all races/genders/etc should be treated equally but even that has become taboo in progressive circles. Problem is, it's always been taboo in conservative circles as well. That is the great problem of our day. All these political ideologues espouse beliefs contrary to the good of large numbers of people in our society. They give speeches about how it's not "us" but the other side who are the bad guys…

I will say that these events have given me some respect for the right wing media. They at least were willing to call these riots and condemm them, which is more than I can say about the reaction to blm. From the left media.

Probably because you have an affinity for them from the outset. Just as those who have respect for left wing media likely had an affinity for liberals from the outset.

It's long been my opinion however, that they need to be dealt with. Just as the pet terrorists they control need to be dealt with. I have zero respect for them, and look forward to seeing a lot of these ideological extremist organizations dismantled over the next decade.

It's time to turn up the heat on these people so high that they won't know who to trust.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#686

Post by chillwaves » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #656

alsetmusic wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you not mentioning any Republicans? That’s a good point. It’s not like Trump’s holdings weren’t fed a line of patrons while he was in office. Seems odd to leave out the most prominent and recent example.

Trump didn't make money off of the presidency, if anything he spent (2016-2017) or lost (2020) wealth: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/forbes-400-donald-tr...

Does this comment account for his $500M+ "loan"?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#687

Post by chillwaves » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #668

hooande wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of Americans watched the Capitol insurrection play out live on tv. That has an impact on the national psyche that's very similar to a terrorist attack. People aren't going to forget about it because we all witnessed it together. It's going to be the defining event of trump's presidency, whether you think that's fair or not

> It's going to be the defining event of trump's presidency, whether you think that's fair or not Trump's approval is not the lowest it's been during his presidency - it was lower in Dec 2017 [0], and even now at 39.2% it's almost twice that of Congress [1] at 20%. It doesn't seem to have hurt him all that much. If you look at favorability rather than job approval, it even seems to be almost unchanged [2], only havin…

So you just get to pick and choose which polling to use?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#688

Post by DaniloDias » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

cheeze wrote: post #517

zarkov99 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

Most folks that I know in Seattle didn't think that CHOP/CHAZ was a good thing, and one of their leaders Raz Simone was heavily criticized for being... well, dumb to put it lightly. It's okay to criticize both things here. CHOP/CHAZ was clearly wrong, as is throwing a molotov at a police officer. No question about that. The capitol was wrong as well.

If CHAZ was so clearly wrong, then why was the democratic city council of Seattle so reluctant to do something about it for so long?

We want to pretend that this is all Trump’s fault- but we’re unable to recognize that it’s Trump who is a symptom of a systemic failure of logic and reason.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#689

Post by monoideism » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:33 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #563

zionic wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you call CHAZ? Wasn’t it fully supported by BLM and a literal sedition zone against the democratically elected government?

> What do you call CHAZ? The popular view of it, especially on the Right? A fiction deliberately constructed by right-wing media (notably Fox News) and the Trump Administration. > Wasn’t it fully supported by BLM BLM isn’t a single, unified organization, so “fully supported by BLM” isn’t a meaningful phrase. The protests which spawned what was briefly called (by unknown persons) CHAZ before being renamed the Capitol…

OK, but what about attacking a federal courthouse for several weeks straight in Portland? All cases had to be moved to another site in a neighboring state. I don't think they should be charged with sedition, but it clearly fits the statute, which states:

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire [...] to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States"

Using violent attacks and arson to force a federal courthouse to close down would seem to fit that definition.

While it's true that the reason the mob attacked the Capitol was arguably worse, both antifa and the Trump mob attacked federal buildings and tried to harm those guarding them.

Also, regarding your source: our media has sadly divided into two, so no resource you list will convince anyone.

Either they already read the resource, and so already agree with you, or they don't read it and know better than to trust it, since it's a partisan source.

We would all do better to stop encouraging open partisanship among the media, and reward non-partisan perspectives. NB: this doesn't have to mean non-opinionated perspectives, although those should be clearly labeled as editorials (now, editorials have blended with news).

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#690

Post by esyir » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #600

esyir wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the incident at the white House that had the secret service moving trump to a bunker for his safety. Note that left aligned media considered this a good thing. Contrasting this to the reaction to capitol hill does not bode well to me.

A small number of protestors made it over some waist high barricades and nearly made it to the white house lawn. They were arrested. Trump himself said he wasn't whisked to a bunker. If you don't see a categorical difference between the two events, I'd recommend checking your biases.

Sounds pretty similar to me. Both sides involved an attempted violent incursion into a core zone of the government. On bias checks, I'd probably just ask you to do the same first. Hell, I'm not even American.

One was met with celebration, I recall reddit threads on the top of all celebrating trumps weakness retreating to the bunker. Conversely, looking at msm rw response, they're not too happy with the capitol riots, with the wsj condemming then.

There are many things I dislike from the rw over the left. Their response to rioting isn't one of them.