Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#531

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #472

alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

Cynical view: Because way too much of law enforcement is totally in on it, from upper management right the way down to beat cops. Compare their (collective) preparations and actions on the 6th to their preparation and actions at many many black lives matter protests. Like the song says: "Some of those who join forces, are the same who burn crosses."

*work forces

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#532

Post by King-Aaron » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #508

King-Aaron wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is credence to the old saying: "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter". But I really don't think we need to devolve to whataboutism here. We're talking about the actions of people storming the capitol building, to try and say 'yes well X group of people are also terrorists' is a completely moot point and an intentional deflection.

This thread started with you saddened at folks downplaying the events at the Capitol. I'm much more concerned with the media being complicit in downplaying what we both agree is domestic terrorism elsewhere. I suppose that's a "what about", but I fear the current structures of power colluding to form narratives more than angry trumpers.

So, there's a few things to unpack here.

1. I don't (personally) agree that the 'black lives matter' protests should be considered as 'terrorism', because fundamentally they began as a protest against the systematic mistreatment of a certain race/demographic of people. While it can be viewed as political, it's not quite the same as 'storming the capital of a country to overturn the result of an election', which is undeniably a political goal. While some BLM rioters eventually did conduct what could be described as terrorist acts, it fundamentally isn't the same thing.

2. You're welcome to disagree on that point, but it's not what's being discussed in this thread.

3. Yes, media overreach is an issue, but it's not the topic of the conversation.

4. I am still sad that people are trying to downplay the issue, and not just because some people don't want to call it terrorism. People saying 'oh in the future it won't even be remembered' etc etc is also problematic as it's downplaying the event itself.

Edit: Added point 2

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#533

Post by Kalium » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

efwfwef wrote: post #500

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

> their decreasing popularity FTFY: in the US > repeated scandal and failure At this point what large company hasn't had breaches or cancelled projects? Hell, is your company doing OK in terms of security? Are they hashing passwords correctly? How large is the security team? My company doesn't even hash passwords... At some point you need to stop living in a bubble and recognize that plenty of people, businesses, com…

> How large is the security team?

More importantly, how big is their whiskey budget?

It's not the greatest proxy, but how regularly your security team drinks is a not-terrible way to gauge how much trouble your org is going to be in should something happen.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#534

Post by imgabe » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #95

cccc4all wrote: post #55

The unequal treatment is the primary issue with the Parler deplatforming. Facebook and Twitter and Google has hosted much more and much worse content, from all sides. Yet, they are protected by the central authorities and mainstream popular media. Facebook, Twitter and Google should all be deplatformed for equal treatment under mob rules.

"All sides" is not a valid argument when we're talking about a specific group that specifically planned and tried to overthrow the government. This is not a "both sides are the same" world.

If their sincere belief is that the election was fraudulent, they would be trying to uphold the government, not overthrow it.

Reverse the situation - Trump wins the election, but you believe that many of the votes cast for him were fraudulent. Would you consider yourself to be "overthrowing" the government by rooting out the fraud and putting in the person who you believe justly won?

I'm not saying they are correct about there being fraud. I don't think they are. But the assumption is they the know the fraud is a lie and they are just deliberately lying to provide an excuse to illegitimately take over the government. I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think even Trump actually believes there was fraud to extent that he actually won.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#535

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #528

ceejayoz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Real" and "worth pissing your pants over" aren't quite the same.

Why does that same description not apply to their adversaries?

When antifa storms the Capitol and gets Congressional representation (i.e. folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene), do let me know.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#536

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

eunos wrote: post #521

0xy wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pulse nightclub shooter was reported directly to the FBI for being suspicious at a gun store prior to the attack. They did nothing. The surveillance was rolled out under the guise of protecting you, but it never has. It's for control.

What control? There's no control, else deadly attacks to the capital no less should not occur.

Leverage, the goods, kompromat

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#537

Post by Railsify » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

Was Trump participating in the conversations on Facebook?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#538

Post by zionic » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

titzer wrote: post #529

tomcam wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they didn’t. Look at the damage done to Seattle and Portland with the full cooperation of Twitter and Facebook.

I missed the part where BLM advocated overthrowing democracy. At worst they advocated to defund police and held obnoxious signs. And despite the right wing narrative, the people carrying signs and doing sit ins were not the ones rioting and looting, but rather getting their ass beat by police.

What do you call CHAZ? Wasn’t it fully supported by BLM and a literal sedition zone against the democratically elected government?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#539

Post by DenisM » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

Jimmc414 wrote: post #389

tomp wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly some of the Establishment wanted it to succeed. Or massively & publicly fail... if we’re trading conspiracy theories.

You have a point. I'm trying to find the differences between this attempted insurrection and a police sting and there are less than I first guessed.

That difference might not be observable from the outside at all. How do you separate "good old incompetence" from "malicious withdrawal to allow the coup and seize power" from "malicious withdrawal to allow the coup to fail and use the blowback to seize power"? Investigation into the behavior of the Capitol police will be of greatest importance to the integrity of the republic.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#540

Post by Railsify » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

Members of Congress will use this event as a catalyst for fundraising, soon after the election they will draft legislation that threatens to control and/or regulate the tech giants. Shortly after that the lobbyists representing Big Tech get wind of this new legislation on the horizon and donations will flow like a river to the PACs and re-election campaigns, then the proposed legislation will be shelved.