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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#191

Post by wutbrodo »

exmicrosoldier wrote: post #161
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

Thank you for the first legitimate critique of the Black Lives Matter organization that I've seen. I don't think it invalidates all of the points of the platform of BLM, but it does make me question the sanity and legitimacy of the organization's leadership.

I don't mean this unkindly, but your information diet has incredibly serious problems if you haven't come across any legitimate criticisms of the BLM org in the past. As someone whose pet issue has been police and justice system violence for a really, really long time, I really wish BLM wasn't the organization/movement representing this particular struggle[1]. The 2020 iteration is a little more connected to reality and a little less hateful than the 2015 one, so I'd count myself as a supporter in a way that I didn't in 2015, but if you've not come across _any_ valid criticism of them before now, I suggest sitting down and taking a hard look at your media diet.

By far the scariest facet of the modern moment to me is all the people sneering at Trumpists detachment from reality while happily wallowing in their own post-truth bubble. The average person has always been horribly un- and misinformed, but the shift in the last couple of years in my white-collar, coastal social group legitimately terrifies me.

[1] Though I'm well-aware that getting attention and support is probably the most important part of driving social change, and they've obviously done very well there.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#192

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

pageandrew wrote: post #169
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s based on capacity to moderate, not on an arbitrary ratio.

The idea that a fledgling social media company needs a moderation effort akin to Facebook in order to be allowed to even exist seems very anti-competitive to me. Content still slips through the cracks on Facebook too. Parler had a moderation system in place, although it was jury-driven and not centralized.

Well, if there were legislation that enforced that high of a barrier to entry to be a social media company, then it would be a moot point.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#193

Post by Uhhrrr »

cochne wrote: post #143
at_a_remove wrote: post #92

I recently found out that on May 30th, there were numerous Secret Service members injured in a BLM/antifa attack (oh, scratch that, "peaceful protest") on the White House. I briefly wondered why I hadn't heard about that, then I chuckled at my own naivete. Of course, one might ask how that was coordinated, but then it was a peaceful protest, so who cares?

Can you provide a source please?

I hadn't heard about it either, but this Guardian article backs it up: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/protest-wash...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#194

Post by Nextgrid »

betterunix2 wrote: post #180
Nextgrid wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that Facebook, Google and plenty of tech companies created this insurrection (damaging countless lives and relationships in the process), earned billions off it and are now claiming the moral high ground? Screw them. In this case, Parler doesn't sound that bad. At least Parler doesn't have billions of literal blood money and doesn't attempt to get into my life like Facebook does. If Parler should be held…

That is the equivalent of saying that someone with HIV created HIV -- after all, it was their body that kept producing more virus particles! QAnon and other BS is a virus that exploits the way platforms determine recommendations and whatnot. The insurrection was not created by Facebook; at most you can only say that Facebook should have been more aggressively policing extremists on their platform (and in fact they ha…

> That is the equivalent of saying that someone with HIV created HIV -- after all, it was their body that kept producing more virus particles! QAnon and other BS is a virus that exploits the way platforms determine recommendations and whatnot

And just like with HIV, we now understand its method of propagation, know how to curtail it, and actually hold people criminally liable if they knowingly spread it.

Why are mainstream social media platforms given a pass here, considering not only do they knowingly operate a system where such content thrives and spreads, but also profiting off its spread?

> One side made the effort and came up short

One side did not make the effort. They profited off not making the effort despite having ample warning of the upcoming crisis. This doesn't make the other side any better, but neither does it mean that the first side should somehow be treated more leniently than the first one.

I'm not defending Parler, but if we're letting Facebook and others get away with this then so should Parler, so that it serves as a reminder to rethink our approach and eventually ban both of them or force them both to reform (as in actually reform, unlike Facebook which merely claims to moderate but only does so when they've been exposed).

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#195

Post by Pfhreak »

loveistheanswer wrote: post #176
Pfhreak wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months This sentence fragment appears deliberately vague and it assumes the conclusion. Compare, for example, "The Capitol Attack" vs "Right Wing Violence in America". One references a specific event with specific actors, the other is a vague non-specific description of a phenomena that may or may not exist. I'd encourage you to be more specific -- which instances of fires and l…

What about CHAZ/CHOP? -Armed protestors took over government buildings and city blocks -Promoted/condoned/excused by government officials -Lots of violence and murder

Which government buildings? The police just left the east precinct... And who were the armed protestors, what were they armed with? In my experience it was umbrellas and loud voices.

And keep in mind that the SPD did considerably more violence to a larger group over that time.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#196

Post by loveistheanswer »

Pfhreak wrote: post #156
bananabreakfast wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BLM protests were explicitly non-violent. The riots that broke out were swiftly condemned and not supported by any organizing group. At no point did any leader express any kind of approval of violence. And most importantly, no one told the rioters that they love them and that they are special.

Agreed. Additionally, it's important to recognize that "peaceful" does not mean the same thing as "non-violent". The protests were not necessarily peaceful -- they intended to be disruptive -- but they were explicitly non-violent.

>"peaceful" does not mean the same thing as "non-violent". The protests were not necessarily peaceful -- they intended to be disruptive

peaceful:

1. free from disturbance; tranquil.

2. not involving war or violence.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#197

Post by tomc1985 »

beefee wrote: post #45

It's chilling how quickly the tech industry has coalesced around oppressive and biased social media censorship policies. A scant few years ago, the tech industry was a beacon of free expression.

Society has been steadily picking off free speech diehards. I think the turning point is when reddit started cracking down

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#198

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

beaner wrote: post #101
ardy42 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people had called one another to prepare this, would we say that the phone was responsible for the attack? And would we try to ban phones? That's a moot point, because an attack like this can't realistically be organized via one-to-one communication. It needs a broadcast medium, which the phone network isn't.

Is CNN, a broadcast television network, considered a broadcast medium for attacks and terrorism for promoting and defending violent riots, and for giving reach to similar statements of support and justification from congress members such as AOC and Nancy Pelosi?

Could you give some concrete examples?

I think the scale of events resulting from a statement are taken into consideration. Terrorists have sprung up after being radicalized by what they heard from one politician or another, but we typically won't consider the politician responsible for those actions.

This probably starts going into whataboutism territory, but doesn't this stuff tend to go both ways? I'd postulate we can probably find a few damning quotes made on Fox as well.

I'll note I'm very ignorant on this topic as I haven't actually watched television or any of these networks in years.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#199

Post by entropea »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #185
entropea wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pirate Radio stations & new LPFM are primarily illegal because Clear Channel/iHeartRadio cannot profit & control the flow of information as well as they do when they have competition. The things Clear Channel hosts, especially on AM, are not even very much different from calling for an attack on the Capitol, having listened to 20+ years (unfortunately) of Rush Limbaugh my grandfather was listening to. You can contact…

Why would clear channel have anything to do with making pirate radio illegal, which it was for decades before the former ever existed?

The same reason, just replace with that generations Clear Channel lobbyists. FM/AM Radio is extremely anti-competitive.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#200

Post by julienchastang »

julienchastang wrote: post #184
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

> Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 I am using Wikipedia as a source, but I do not think this is true. Planned perhaps, but never carried out on account of law enforcement intervention. It is somewhat dispiriting to see this comment at the top of HN and implies a false moral equivalence. Since you probably prefer right-wing news sources, see this editorial in the WSJ: "No Excuses for Trump and the…

OK, I stand corrected. Apparently, this did really happen [1], but my other comment still holds.

[1] https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/07/bomb-explodes-in-u...

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