Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#171

Post by trident5000 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

klmadfejno wrote: post #162

trident5000 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that everyone has their own opinion on what is good and bad right? I cant believe how naive this statement is.

Golly it's just so hard to know who to trust. The crowds protesting racial injustice and police brutality? Or the literal, self identifying nazis, white supremacists, and cultish conspiracy theorists trying to kill political leaders. Alas our moral non cognizance in a post modern perspective. edit: to the below, really, no. There's no hyperbole. If your group features nazis, and your group is not making every effort…

Another issue is how any individual frames either side and bases good and bad off of that, often using hyperbole, inaccuracies, wide brushes of their opposing views.

Where are all these “nazis” you say that word a lot. “My group” I didnt know I was in a group. You certainly seem to assume a lot and form knee jerk conclusions. Actually proving my point quite well.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#172

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#173

Post by saiya-jin » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

hetspookjee wrote: post #104

bananabreakfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's chilling how quickly radical terrorist groups have coalesced around using social media to coordinate their hatred and their attacks. A scant few years ago, America actively fought terrorists instead of encouraging and facilitating them.

Off topic but I'm having increasingly more difficulty with the term Terrorist. How'd you call American intrusions in sovereign states? Just somewhat recently the drone strike of the General Soleimani on sovereign grounds were an act of terrorism if perceived through the eyes of most Iranians, and possibly Iraqis as the strike was on their ground. Terrorist is a term that is stretched and applied beyond meaning.

We all know how things are - the world is not a fair place. It never was, and so far its rigged in a way that it never will be. Strong oppress the weak. Skillful strong oppress in a way that weak don't even notice but that's another topic. The word terrorist currently means 'enemy of me', if me is state powerful enough to project its power on others. US took any other meaning internationally from this word over last 17 years pretty effectively.

If you actively object the biggest military in the world, there is no safe place on this planet. A country that effectively uses black op sites to do torture on suspects that would be illegal back home, a country that actively uses a prison to indefinitely detain (and torture) suspects without any legal process (and so on and on... really, there are whole books about this), has absolutely 0 issues with bombing some enemy general. It can be even in the centre of Brusel for all they care, if the benefits outweigh the cons. If they kill 50 kids along, all they do is try to minimize media damage. Do you see many americans shedding tears over this? From outside its pretty hard to spot any, and anybody who cares knows how things are.

Let's not pretend wars are something nice, fair and some gentlemanly approach is applied. Almost anything that works will be used.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#174

Post by djrogers » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #153

a-posteriori wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violence is categorically bad, regardless of what the intentions are. Referring to violence as "doing things" purposely avoids recognizing this.

The BLM protests were explicitly non-violent. The riots that broke out were swiftly condemned and not supported by any organizing group. At no point did any leader express any kind of approval of violence. And most importantly, no one told the rioters that they love them and that they are special.

I'm sorry, but that's revisionist history.

Ariel Atkins - Chicago BLM leader:

"That is reparations,” Ariel Atkins, an organizer, told NBC Chicago. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it"

She said that about a riot in which 13 police officers were injured, and at least one rioter fired at police.

This is just one example of many where BLM leaders justified (or glorified) violence.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#175

Post by klmadfejno » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #140

When will Apple remove FB then? FB has said it is too big to moderate effectively, ergo in principle it is unmoderated just like Parler. FB has a point, for example, in Myanmar the platform is being used to organize genocide. There is no way FB could hire enough local moderators to deal with this without turning off the service.

I honestly doubt that is the case. Movements like this are going to have a small number of popular leaders. Ban people, rather than just removing some posts, and you can disrupt that social graph pretty quick.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#176

Post by loveistheanswer » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #134

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

> Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months This sentence fragment appears deliberately vague and it assumes the conclusion. Compare, for example, "The Capitol Attack" vs "Right Wing Violence in America". One references a specific event with specific actors, the other is a vague non-specific description of a phenomena that may or may not exist. I'd encourage you to be more specific -- which instances of fires and l…

What about CHAZ/CHOP?

-Armed protestors took over government buildings and city blocks

-Promoted/condoned/excused by government officials

-Lots of violence and murder

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#177

Post by cccc4all » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #95

cccc4all wrote: post #55

The unequal treatment is the primary issue with the Parler deplatforming. Facebook and Twitter and Google has hosted much more and much worse content, from all sides. Yet, they are protected by the central authorities and mainstream popular media. Facebook, Twitter and Google should all be deplatformed for equal treatment under mob rules.

"All sides" is not a valid argument when we're talking about a specific group that specifically planned and tried to overthrow the government. This is not a "both sides are the same" world.

What is your world, where this is not a "both sides are the same"?

Which side are you on? Which side are your family, friends, and neighbors on? What will you do when you find someone on the other side?

Most importantly, what is making you to take one side or the other?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#178

Post by giantg2 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #147

giantg2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So democracy or trial by your peers fails?

In site moderation it's basically a guarantee that you'll wind up with an extreme echo chamber, people self select in or out the site based on the content of that site. Unless your user group is extremely broad based and siloing is good enough that people aren't driven off the site by extremists then the group of moderators you select from is inherently pretty ok with the content of the site. It has a chance to work…

How is it different than real life? Look at the county by county map of the past couple presidential elections. You'll see that there is very much a delineation between people with different ideals resulting in echo chambers. We see this in stereotypes of country folks or city folks by the other.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#179

Post by jjoonathan » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage.

On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election.

In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case of the capitol riots, not only are the crimes worse (storming the capitol >> property damage), but the criminal acts absolutely do reflect on the movement's agenda. Intimidating congress is a plausible vehicle for obtaining the votes they needed that day to overturn the election. Trump's pre-riot speech emphasized that this was the goal. These factors increase the culpability of platforms and leadership in the capitol riots as compared to BLM.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#180

Post by betterunix2 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #125

yonaguska wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler did have plans for generating revenue. I'm not sure what your point is. Facebook and Google were operating at a loss initially as well. It seems like you are arguing that deplatforming Parler is more ok, because they never got to the point of being entrenched tech hegemonies? Or are you arguing that Parler is somehow more quilty because they weren't making money yet, so their intentions are bad?

My point is that Facebook, Google and plenty of tech companies created this insurrection (damaging countless lives and relationships in the process), earned billions off it and are now claiming the moral high ground? Screw them. In this case, Parler doesn't sound that bad. At least Parler doesn't have billions of literal blood money and doesn't attempt to get into my life like Facebook does. If Parler should be held…

That is the equivalent of saying that someone with HIV created HIV -- after all, it was their body that kept producing more virus particles! QAnon and other BS is a virus that exploits the way platforms determine recommendations and whatnot. The insurrection was not created by Facebook; at most you can only say that Facebook should have been more aggressively policing extremists on their platform (and in fact they have been improving their approach to moderation for years -- unfortunately the problem has been getting worse faster than Facebook has improved their handling of it). Parler and Gab, on the other hand, were created as a protest against the moderation that happens on other platforms (even though that moderation is itself insufficient), and that is what they were held accountable for: explicitly and deliberately not conducting moderation.

This "both sides" argument is getting tiresome. Parler was created to be a safe haven for the very extremists Facebook is being criticized for not aggressively banning. One side made the effort and came up short, the other side attacked the effort itself. There is really not much of a comparison here.