Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#151

Post by yonaguska » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #7

Simulacra wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you. The evidence appears to support that conclusion, so I'm trying to understand why Facebook is given a pass. IMO Facebook has been the single greatest catalyst for abusive online behavior in twenty years, but it's in a protected class. I would like to know why. Is it just money?

Because dems took total power in the elections and Apple and Google know they are under the antitrust microscope. Its likely indirect bribery in hopes of a returned favor.

Seems like every time big tech went in front of congress- it turned into a public fishing expedition for lobbying dollars.

Democrats overwhelmingly called for censorship and regulation.

Republicans overwhelmingly complained of unfair treatment.

Big tech responds by preemptively censoring and regulating content.

I believe that regulation is coming with dems in total power. Regulation will be written and paid for by big tech as a means to consolidate regulatory capture.

I think you're right, it's indirect bribery. I doubt anything will be done about it.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#152

Post by narraturgy » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:15 PM UTC

californical wrote: post #28

seattle_spring wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't, but ok. Facebook has a huge moderation team. Just because some things get through that cause damage doesn't put it in the same category as a platform specifically built to enable terrorism.

I’m sorry but this isn’t Reddit, you can’t just claim a platform was specifically built for terrorism because you’re upset. It has definitely attracted an alt-right crowd, but “specifically built to enable terrorism” is some ridiculous cable-news-level propaganda. I’d much rather this conversation be about free speech and where lines can be drawn — and it bothers me that platforms can be taken down everywhere because…

If you build a platform specifically to house/attract people who were banned from typical platforms because they had a tendency towards promoting violence, then I would argue that you are very much enabling (possibly even encouraging) their behavior. I believe that is a pretty logical sequence, and a clear line to draw.

There are very few people who earnestly want an unmoderated place of discourse, because those serve very little functional purpoae. Eventually most people will find something either irrelevant to their interests or personally repugnant presented to them and will go back to a place where there is some degree of moderation in place so that they can consistently find thing that interest and engage them. Why are you on HN and not one of these wholly unmoderated forums? Even curation of topics is a form of moderation, not to mention HN's strict approach to actually thoughtful commentary. The people who earnestly want a wholly unmoderated space are increasingly likely, depending on their desire for it, to be one of those people engaging in something so boorish that it got them removed from moderated spaces.

Furthermore, there is no small amount of irony in you saying you'd rather talk about free speech right after telling someone what they can or cannot claim.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#153

Post by bananabreakfast » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

a-posteriori wrote: post #130

_r0fz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk how to tell you this in a way you'll listen to but doing things for good reasons is good and doing them for bad reasons is bad.

Violence is categorically bad, regardless of what the intentions are. Referring to violence as "doing things" purposely avoids recognizing this.

The BLM protests were explicitly non-violent. The riots that broke out were swiftly condemned and not supported by any organizing group. At no point did any leader express any kind of approval of violence. And most importantly, no one told the rioters that they love them and that they are special.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#154

Post by Pfhreak » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

a-posteriori wrote: post #130

_r0fz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk how to tell you this in a way you'll listen to but doing things for good reasons is good and doing them for bad reasons is bad.

Violence is categorically bad, regardless of what the intentions are. Referring to violence as "doing things" purposely avoids recognizing this.

Violence is not categorically bad, I don't think. Rarely, violence is necessary in self defense. It might be the option of last resort, but sometimes violence can stop worse consequences.

I'm not justifying any particular actions that anyone has taken in specific, just objecting to the categorization that it is always bad. (For example, someone suffering from domestic violence might strike back in an effort to escape.)

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#155

Post by prions » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:16 PM UTC

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #112

>The Capitol Attack Where was this rhetoric when Antifa and BLM burned and looted for months with the blessings of all corporations and the mainstream media? Surely the Capitol Hill has an insurance policy? Or does that moronic point only apply to the common folk? Susan Rosenberg literally bombed the Capitol in 1983 and now serves as vice chair of the board of directors of Thousand Currents, a " non-profit foundation…

Nice to see Trump/Russia talking points being copied almost word-for-word on hackernews.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#156

Post by Pfhreak » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #153

a-posteriori wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violence is categorically bad, regardless of what the intentions are. Referring to violence as "doing things" purposely avoids recognizing this.

The BLM protests were explicitly non-violent. The riots that broke out were swiftly condemned and not supported by any organizing group. At no point did any leader express any kind of approval of violence. And most importantly, no one told the rioters that they love them and that they are special.

Agreed. Additionally, it's important to recognize that "peaceful" does not mean the same thing as "non-violent". The protests were not necessarily peaceful -- they intended to be disruptive -- but they were explicitly non-violent.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#157

Post by potency » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

beefee wrote: post #45

It's chilling how quickly the tech industry has coalesced around oppressive and biased social media censorship policies. A scant few years ago, the tech industry was a beacon of free expression.

I'd argue that this has been creeping for a while. At first it's used to ban blatantly illegal posts and obvious spam. However the power to moderate is easily abused. Big Tech is now effectively punishing wrong-think, and it doesn't even have to happen on the platform in question.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#158

Post by at_a_remove » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

cochne wrote: post #143

at_a_remove wrote: post #92

I recently found out that on May 30th, there were numerous Secret Service members injured in a BLM/antifa attack (oh, scratch that, "peaceful protest") on the White House. I briefly wondered why I hadn't heard about that, then I chuckled at my own naivete. Of course, one might ask how that was coordinated, but then it was a peaceful protest, so who cares?

Can you provide a source please?

I could, but why not search for it? As an exciting exercise, look at who reported it and, more interestingly, who didn't. Examine how the event was described, when it was described at all.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#159

Post by yonaguska » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #118

eplanit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to Antifa and BLM, who also organized on FB and Twitter during 2020, too?

You mean the fictitious boogeyman "group" that not one member has ever been identified and the movement for black rights that was widely brutalized by the police? I suppose not, seeing as one is a fantasy and the other clearly had the police paying attention to their plans. Besides, neither has attempted a coup to overturn an election so it's not really the same is it?

Do you honestly believe that Antifa is not real?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#160

Post by ttt0 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:18 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #133

ttt0 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that Parler was created specifically to organize violence? If that's what you're saying then please provide a clear evidence that proves this is the case. Saying something like that just seems really dishonest in most, if not all, contexts.

I can tell you that the content on Parler was, on a percentage basis, far closer to incitement of violence than, say, Reddit. I saw this for myself. I cannot tell you the motivations of the founders since I’m not a mind reader.

I think that's plausible, but I just have to question the framing that Parler served no other purpose than organizing violence. As an aside, Reddit is pretty tame in general, a more fair comparison would be against Facebook or Twitter.