Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes • Hacker News Board

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#91

Post by chmod600 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

generalizations wrote: post #87

chmod600 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is reason to worry when the tools of defiance or rebellion are taken away. Rebellion is bad, but maitaining some remote possibility is good. This case isn't really so bad because there's no prior restraint, no tools being taken away, or new tools for the government. There is still concern that charges could be heaped on someone to the point they feel the need to plea bargain for something that is either a very…

> Rebellion is bad Not always. Not saying it is here, but I think it depends on the context. Arab Spring, for instance.

The Arab Spring had mixed results, at best.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#92

Post by syedkarim » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

moftz wrote: post #66

rmason wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I became a ham back in the sixties the amateur bands were policed by the FCC themselves. They even had rolling vans with directional antennas. You even had to go to the local FCC office to sit for the license test of all but the novice license. I still can remember the sound Morse code made in the room with glass on all four sides. They looked in at you and for a kid it was like being in a fish bowl. But in a co…

I think its mostly people with Baofengs operating on MURS and GRMS bands. The prepper and tactical larper forums all talk about how to setup a Baofeng for unlicensed use at these bands. I hope all hams out there do their best to help monitor our airwaves and report any abuse.

There should be bounties for logging/recording unauthorized use in amateur or licensed bands.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#93

Post by vaduz » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

dschuler wrote: post #39

WJW wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Step 1: Look at some law books. If it's in there, then it's definitely a crime.

I think avmich is getting at the idea that some actions may or may not be legal until determined to be a crime, at which point there would be two: the original crime, and using radio to facilitate it. This reminds me of a question on the US immigration card for non-citizens - it asks if the traveler intends to rob a bank. If you want to be let in, you have to check "no" of course, but anyone who then robs a bank whil…

The goal of similar questions (also, my favourites: have you ever been training child soldiers, or have you been involved in a violent overthrow of a legal government) is to make any discrepancy a separate immigration offense - making it a jurisdiction of Immigration Court, with expedited process whilst you have limited rights and deportation at the end.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#94

Post by mindcrime » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

killtheliterate wrote: post #70

mindcrime wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using my Baofeng for a couple of years now and have no problem working many repeaters here in the Triangle (NC) area. YMMV.

same. it's a perfectly fine shitty radio. i have 3 of them that i keep stashed in various places. they certainly aren't as nice as my yaesu, and they do splatter, but they do work just fine.

perfectly fine shitty radio

Hah! What a great bit of word-smithing there. I love it. Yes, that's a good description of the Baofeng radios. They're crap, but they're fine crap. Cheap, but workable as a beginner radio. I bought mine right when I got my Technician license, and it's served well for dipping my toes in the water a little. But I'll be buying a higher quality radio soon, if all goes according to plan.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#95

Post by madengr » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #35

Baofeng's, Baofengs everywhere. Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios. These are very cheap ($20'ish) radios that work very poorly (they splatter all over the bands) even when equipped with decent antennas. They barely work when equipped with the stock rubber-duck antennas. It's easy to be a snob about the type of radios that they are using, but that's not even the point…

"Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios."

I actually didn't see any HTs used by poll workers, but yes, Baofengs are garbage.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#96

Post by avmich » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

fredophile wrote: post #71

dschuler wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think avmich is getting at the idea that some actions may or may not be legal until determined to be a crime, at which point there would be two: the original crime, and using radio to facilitate it. This reminds me of a question on the US immigration card for non-citizens - it asks if the traveler intends to rob a bank. If you want to be let in, you have to check "no" of course, but anyone who then robs a bank whil…

My understanding is that the purpose of those types of questions is to make it easy to deport you for lying on the immigration paperwork.

And some immigration lawyers can perhaps successfully argue that it was due to sincere change of heart - no intent at the time of answering the question. /s

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#97

Post by bzb6 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #35

Baofeng's, Baofengs everywhere. Of all the images I have seen of the attempted coup, I have only seen baofeng radios. These are very cheap ($20'ish) radios that work very poorly (they splatter all over the bands) even when equipped with decent antennas. They barely work when equipped with the stock rubber-duck antennas. It's easy to be a snob about the type of radios that they are using, but that's not even the point…

Your post reeks of elitism, which is very common in the radio community. Saying baofeng radios “barely work” when you use them with the antennas they come with is a blatant lie.

I’m sorry that there’s some sort of “eternal September” in the radio community because of baofeng users, but lying won’t bring back the days when only people who could afford very expensive equipment could enjoy radios.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#98

Post by kube-system » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

astrobe_ wrote: post #29

> The Bureau has become aware of discussions on social media platforms suggesting that certain radio services regulated by the Commission may be an alternative to social media platforms [...] Amateur and Personal Radio Services, however, may not be used to commit or facilitate crimes. The sequitur between "social media platforms" and "commit or facilitate crimes" is quite interesting.

In the part you omitted, they recognize legal speech as the other use.

> The Bureau recognizes that these services can be used for a wide range of permitted purposes, including speech that is protected under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

They didn't jump straight to illegal speech as it sounds like you're inferring. They mentioned legal speech first.

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#99

Post by umvi » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #52

jjoonathan wrote: post #8

I can already hear the cries of censorship. "What do you mean crimes aren't protected speech?"

There is reason to worry when the tools of defiance or rebellion are taken away. Rebellion is bad, but maitaining some remote possibility is good. This case isn't really so bad because there's no prior restraint, no tools being taken away, or new tools for the government. There is still concern that charges could be heaped on someone to the point they feel the need to plea bargain for something that is either a very…

> Rebellion is bad

1776?

Re: Radio users reminded not to use radios in crimes

#100

Post by vaduz » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #52

jjoonathan wrote: post #8

I can already hear the cries of censorship. "What do you mean crimes aren't protected speech?"

There is reason to worry when the tools of defiance or rebellion are taken away. Rebellion is bad, but maitaining some remote possibility is good. This case isn't really so bad because there's no prior restraint, no tools being taken away, or new tools for the government. There is still concern that charges could be heaped on someone to the point they feel the need to plea bargain for something that is either a very…

> Rebellion is bad, but maitaining some remote possibility is good.

There is that little affair from 1765 to 1783 that gets generally good press, though. "Context is for kings" is tinged with irony on that one.

> This case isn't really so bad because there's no prior restraint, no tools being taken away, or new tools for the government.

Jokes aside, any sentence which contains "no tools being taken away" around messages such as this one are is assuming too much about the future - it is entirely within the power of both executive (FCC) and legislative (Congress) to curtail the use of specific tools, including radios. It shows that someone in the agency has thought that this particular case warrants making a public statement, which is an escalation.