Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#861

Post by username90 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

mdoms wrote: post #477

antibuddy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first instinct is to think, that you never believed in free speech in the first place, however I'd like to hear some examples of what shook you to the core.

I imagine he's referring to right wing extremists storming the capitol building to overthrow a democratically elected leader and imprison and perhaps murder members of the house of representatives. Just a thought.

That wasn't even close to successful though and didn't have any consequences in the end. If this is the worst that can happen then shouldn't that strengthen his views that free speech is just fine? Free speech has given us gay rights, abortion and many other things, having a few bumps on the road like this isn't a problem, the problem is if we argue that we can no longer accept bumps in the road and therefore must no longer maky any progress.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#862

Post by username90 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #199

cccc4all wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always question everything you are told, especially by central authorities, mainstream popular media, etc. Seek out information from variety of sources and discern the truth from fiction. What you may think is evidence may be completely opposite of what it actually is. Especially any narratives that are pushed to convince people to voluntarily give up privacy and freedoms. Just look at all the regular people going ar…

> Always question everything you are told, especially by central authorities, mainstream popular media, etc. This is how conspiracy theories start.

Trump is a central authority and fox news is a mainstream popular media. I don't think that questioning them amounts to conspiracy theories or that doing it should get you banned.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#863

Post by esyir » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #766

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BLM and Antifa activists aren't even members of a real organization Aren’t there “real” BLM organizations? Aren’t there “real” antifa groups?

The meaning of that is that there is no central authority nor uniformity for antifa or BLM groups. Everybody can start their own antifa group because all that takes is opposing fascism, that's the only unifying factor there. It's the same with BLM: It's not some kind of ideology with international governing institutions, it's a call to a cause very much like antifa. It's simply opposition to fascism/police violence w…

I'm going to go one step further. Anyone can be antifa, even the facists. Same with blm and racists. There's absolutely no governing body, and from what I've seen, there's at least a visible portion of the antifa who care little for facism opposition and more for wrecking shit.

That's the catch with these movements. Any description of them is by necessity a generalization.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#864

Post by emphatizer2000 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:40 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #598

emphatizer2000 wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"attempt to install a different regime" How can anybody believe such nonsense? Sorry, but simply taking over the capitol doesn't automatically make you the ruler of a new regime. It's not a video game were you get made king when you conquer the target zone.

> How can anybody believe such nonsense? Because the intelligentsia aligned with the “retain power for Trump at all costs” faction represetned in the insurrection announced various mechanisms by which that ccould be done (which may be Constitutionally dubious, but that’s irrelevant here), because the President openly endorsed those theories, and because the actions the members of the mob openly stated they wanted to…

Are you referring to various legal shenanigans? Is it really an "insurrection" if it is a process within the legal system? I don't think so. And I don't think Trump at any point endorsed any theory involving a storming of the capitol, as he never called for anybody to storm the capitol.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#865

Post by inglor_cz » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:42 AM UTC

babesh wrote: post #314

cortesoft wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. This is the really tricky part, though... absolute free expression only prevents people from enacting total control if it persists; however, free speech is not something that can’t be undone. This is a form of the paradox of tolerance. If people use their absolute free speech to push lies and propaganda that al…

That is why you need an educated populace. By educated, we mean one that can think critically and independently rather than a college credential.

Germany in the early 1930s was one of the best, most rigorously educated nations in the world.

It was also crushed by weight of enormous economic crisis.

Smart people pushed to the wall will be more dangerous than stupid(ish) people who have something to lose.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#866

Post by emphatizer2000 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:43 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #544

emphatizer2000 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"would happily kill any of them without a second thought" Bullshit

They killed a police officer, and savagely beat others. What makes you think they wouldn’t extend that to others?

May I ask where you get your information from?

I am genuinely curious. I googled it, and while the exact circumstances don't seem to be clear yet, it doesn't sound like murder to me. It sounds as if most likely the officer was hurt in a brawl between rioters and police (being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher). While that is still awful, murder requires murderous intent and planning (afaik).

Therefore, it seems really interesting what sources gave you the impression it was murder.

On the other hand I remember a police officer being shot during BLM riots, while he tried to protect a business. So by your logic, is it reasonable to assume that BLM activists would murder their opponents without second thought?

Did people throw bricks during BLM protests? That seems roughly the equivalent to throwing fire extinguishers, accepting that somebody could be severely hurt or even die.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#867

Post by throwaway568468 » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:44 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #773

eznzt wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She said Muhammad was a pederast, which is correct, according to the Quran.

According to the Bible God "came over" a 12 year old Mary, sneaking into her bedroom at night like some creepy uncle, to "pop her cherry" before her newly wed husband Joseph could. The child of that came to be known as.. Jesus. Which should be a stark reminder that all Abrahamic religions have their roots based in such absurd and ancient practices that none of them hold up much to scrutiny under modern standards exce…

I can't find any biblical source for the supposed age of Mary. Do you have a passage from the Bible in mind?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#868

Post by inglor_cz » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:46 AM UTC

rualca wrote: post #842

Aerroon wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free expression is chaotic. It always has been and it always will be. It will always have lies and misinformation, some people will even believe the lies. But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. Speech that is free will always seed doubt against ideas, regardless whether those ideas are true or false. It's an avenue that allows anything to be questione…

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. This ignores all the historical events where groups leveraging said chaotic nature of free speech succeeded in establishing totalitarian regimes which enacted total control over the entire population, including it's supporters.

Well, actually ... one of the best lessons from the interwar period is that political parties must be forbidden from keeping their paramilitary units.

Because at the moment of the coup, well-organized paramilitary units (SA or Czechoslovak People Militias or Italian Camicie Nere) were always the crucial factor in success, and not just a mob of random rabble aroused by someone's speech.

All the later hotspots on the European map (North Ireland, Basque Country, Corsica) broke this rule and the local irredentist parties had a "political wing" and a "militant wing".

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#869

Post by GoblinSlayer » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

freebuju wrote: post #750

sjwright wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College degrees are not a relevant metric. What percentage of the population are being taught fundamental critical thinking skills? How many are taught how to evaluate the quality of data and the quality of sources? How many people have a good grounding of statistics? Or civics? Or logical fallacies? How many people can describe the scientific method? I don't have many vivid memories of my primary school education bu…

> how to be suspicious of claims made in advertisements. That one class stuck with me for a long time. (This was in Melbourne, Australia sometime around 1988.) FWIW, advertising and to a larger extent advocacy in 1988 and what is today are entirety different animals. Though I do agree with your point. The number of college graduates does not equate to higher critical thinking of a nation's populace. I did attend a jo…

You mean tracking? Advertisements themselves didn't change. And you don't need any complex countermeasure, just knowing that the information not trustworthy is enough for all practical purposes and for all information sources. People who fall for lies have only one wrong assumption: that the information they receive is trustworthy, once that one is out, it stops working for good.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#870

Post by famouslastwords » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 9:55 AM UTC

rualca wrote: post #844

heimatau wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free expression is chaotic. The founding fathers(FF) knew this. The FF created a system of government that acts as a society consciousness. Allowing for passion (the House) but having frontal lobe mechanisms (the Senate guards against the mob mentality). The recent insurrection happened specifically because of the laziness/apathy/intentional (take your pick, I'm certain one is true) of the Congress. It was their jo…

> BLM/Qanon are equally screwed up. Can you please elaborate how a movement against police brutality and racism is in any way comparable with a group that supports a conspiracy theory regarding a cabal of satanic-worshiping cannibals?

[dead]