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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#271

Post by throwaway8250 »

dfgdghdf wrote: post #176

Here's how I might open a debate with right-leaning people about freedom of speech. If you sell a product, but make false claims about that product, then you are committing fraud. You have harmed someone (financially) with your speech, and contract laws rightly overrule freedom of speech here. So, if you believe in contract law, which is essential for free markets, then you must believe in limitations on speech... th…

Leftists have never explicitly stated that truth is an absolute defense against charges of hate speech. Raw data, like race and crime statistics, that contradict their narrative are often deemed hate speech by them too.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#272

Post by ogre_codes »

hartator wrote: post #49

I don’t get all the anti free speech comments here. I rather live in a country with real free speech but no democracy than the reverse. You can’t have democracy without free speech.

Parler was not deplatformed due to any free speech issues.

They were deplatformed for blatantly violating the terms of service with multiple platform providers. If you host certain types of content, you are going to have trouble finding a platform.

If your platform allows open discussion of violent acts... you don't have the same options as other platforms. 8chan ran into this years ago.

If you lie to platform providers and host that kind of content on their platform, you should be prepared to get dumped.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#273

Post by rubyist5eva »

mcguire wrote: post #230
eznzt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr... Is this really what you want?

" She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria…

All of those things are true and are common knowledge among those with even a modicum of knowledge about the religion.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#274

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

erichocean wrote: post #258
neartheplain wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be nothing illegal about “attacking” a religion with words, all the moreso if those words are factually accurate.

It's incitement. Donald Trump was just impeached for the same thing.

I think everyone knows that in this new era of US politics the president will be impeached at least once every year after his party will lose the House.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#275

Post by eznzt »

mcguire wrote: post #230
eznzt wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr... Is this really what you want?

" She held “seminars” in which she presented her view that Muhammad was indeed a child molester. Dominant Islamic traditions hold that Muhammad’s third wife, Aisha, was 6 at the time of their marriage and 9 at its consummation. Muhammad was in his early 50s. The Austrian woman repeated these claims, and the Austrian court ruled that she had to pay 480 euros or spend 60 days in the slammer. The ECHR ruled that Austria…

She said Muhammad was a pederast, which is correct, according to the Quran.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#276

Post by BrianOnHN »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #170
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Honestly I think the legal status quo is pretty close to ideal: governments may not limit speech, but platforms can clamp down on anything they want. The only problem with the platforms is that they still somewhat cling to the idea that they won’t censor speech, which is frankly ridiculous. Of course they will censor, they should just admit it and clamp down any speech they find abhorrent. Allow the marketplace (and…

> cling to the idea that they won’t censor speech

What about the cost of moderation?

Right now, the savings outweigh the liability.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#277

Post by heimatau »

Aerroon wrote: post #146
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Free expression is chaotic. It always has been and it always will be. It will always have lies and misinformation, some people will even believe the lies. But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. Speech that is free will always seed doubt against ideas, regardless whether those ideas are true or false. It's an avenue that allows anything to be questione…

> Free expression is chaotic.

The founding fathers(FF) knew this. The FF created a system of government that acts as a society consciousness. Allowing for passion (the House) but having frontal lobe mechanisms (the Senate guards against the mob mentality).

The recent insurrection happened specifically because of the laziness/apathy/intentional (take your pick, I'm certain one is true) of the Congress. It was their job to protect DC and with a rally on the same day nonetheless, yet the law enforcement was gravely lacking. Also the DC mayor and even the POTUS, yet none took the responsibility.

As for Parler, they acted like little children. Whining and not doing much. They attack a hornet's nest then cry when they get stung. They should've been prepared instead of telling Tucker Carlson's audience their entire system of weaknesses.

Peter Kolmisoppi, one of The Pirate Bay co-founders, criticized their behavior as well [1]. (Not being prepared, whining, etc)

Society is starkly divided between the rural and urban elites. There will always be bad eggs. BLM/Qanon are equally screwed up. But the kicker is two major things. We need better discourse and more civic engagement. No change will happen without our engagement (for either side).

Ultimately, I welcome the fourth turning.

[1] - https://twitter.com/brokep/status/1348224123592437760

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#278

Post by rubyist5eva »

erichocean wrote: post #258
neartheplain wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be nothing illegal about “attacking” a religion with words, all the moreso if those words are factually accurate.

It's incitement. Donald Trump was just impeached for the same thing.

Absolutely ridiculous. Unless you are credibly telling people to actually go and commit violence, it is no such thing.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#279

Post by ogre_codes »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #149
NationalPark wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. I am unbelievably tired of people setting this up as "pro free speech" vs "anti free speech". It's inflammatory (who proudly calls themselves "anti-free speech"? It's bad faith just to say that. Anyway.) and it's misleading. Most critically, almost everyone fundamentally agrees that censorship is a good thing, in principle. Even the most extreme "free speech" oriented websites remove spam, illegal pornography,…

I think the discussion shouldn't be about what should be censorship but rather who decides it. So if you put, lets say illegal pornography, on your page, then there is a law that forbids it. Especially in a good system the person who posted it gets prosecuted. On the other hand if companies act like judge and low, it can lead to bad things I think.

Amazon has terms of service. As does Apple and Google.

Parler has lawyers who can read this kind of thing.

Parler violated those terms of service. Pretty much across the board. In the case of Amazon, they had 7 weeks of advance notification.

This isn't about censorship. It's not about "Free Speech", it's about a company breeching contract and suffering the consequences for it.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#280

Post by erichocean »

throwaway8250 wrote: post #271
dfgdghdf wrote: post #176

Here's how I might open a debate with right-leaning people about freedom of speech. If you sell a product, but make false claims about that product, then you are committing fraud. You have harmed someone (financially) with your speech, and contract laws rightly overrule freedom of speech here. So, if you believe in contract law, which is essential for free markets, then you must believe in limitations on speech... th…

Leftists have never explicitly stated that truth is an absolute defense against charges of hate speech. Raw data, like race and crime statistics, that contradict their narrative are often deemed hate speech by them too.

It's incitement. Trump was just impeached for that.
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