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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#461

Post by ctrlp »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Your commitment to free speech was likely never very deep or thoughtful if these events are enough for you to do a 180. Could it be you have fallen into a filter bubble so well insulated you don't realize it? Such a realization might also shake a person but it has the virtue of proximity to truth and the possibility of being corrected quite easily.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#462

Post by zuminator »

smsm42 wrote: post #410
compiler-guy wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smeared feces, stole laptops, broke windows, killed a police officer and got one of their own killed. People with bullhorns directed their fellows to the next target. It was an insurrection attempt by incompetents and LARPers, but absolutely an insurrection attempt.

> smeared feces, stole laptops > absolutely an insurrection attempt. You must have a really low bar for "insurrection". If stealing a laptop is "insurrection", by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020 - would be a Galactic War or something.

We're taking about a mob attempting to topple the actual seat of government by an incursion onto the floor of Congress. What does that have to do with Target?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#463

Post by sdenton4 »

smsm42 wrote: post #404
stolen_biscuit wrote: post #330

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it. Don't pretend this is a narrati…

> The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. That would be a crappy democracy if it could be eroded by a bunch of idiots taking an unauthorized Whitehouse tour. Fortunately, absolutely nothing happened to the democracy and it proceeded on its course. What could actually erode the democracy is nation giving up on free speech. That'd be a real sign of nation in severe distress. > I don't listen to your news…

First: Perhaps you'd be willing to agree that this was an explicit attempt at a soft coup: The explicit goal was to disrupt congressional proceedings as part of a plan to overturn election results.

Second: As others have observed, we got extremely lucky that the rioters didn't actually come in contact with any congress-people or the vice president. What do you think would have happened if, say the crowd has come in contact with AOC, for example? What would have happened if enough Dems were killed or incapacitated to change the balance of votes on certifying the election? The hundred-odd house republicans certainly made a big point of not changing their certification votes after the riots.

Third: When someone fires a gun at your head and the bullet misses, will you make excuses on behalf of the shooter? After all, if they were /really/ a killer, they wouldn't have missed, right? The bullet missed, you continued on your day, nothing should be done...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#464

Post by compiler-guy »

smsm42 wrote: post #410
compiler-guy wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smeared feces, stole laptops, broke windows, killed a police officer and got one of their own killed. People with bullhorns directed their fellows to the next target. It was an insurrection attempt by incompetents and LARPers, but absolutely an insurrection attempt.

> smeared feces, stole laptops > absolutely an insurrection attempt. You must have a really low bar for "insurrection". If stealing a laptop is "insurrection", by that bar looting a Target - which we witnessed the whole 2020 - would be a Galactic War or something.

That part was responding to the GP claim that they stayed between the velvet ropes and left when they were asked. They did none of those things. As far as insurrection, even someone as dim a bulb as Elizabeth from Knoxville thought it was “a revolution.” That is the very definition of insurrection.

https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/01/07/who-is-elizabeth-from-knoxvil...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#465

Post by frostburg »

smsm42 wrote: post #443
frostburg wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consider how immersed in the QAnon belief system the whole thing is. The scary thing is how large amounts of people are apparently willing to attack democracy (broadly against their own interests) on the impetus of completely baseless hogwash. Society apparently has little defense against this sort of viral, distributed cult and people are scrambling. I'm pretty sure that ad-hoc ostracism effected by large soc…

> The scary thing is how large amounts of people are apparently willing to attack democracy You mean, like set up an autonomous zone in a center of the city and kick the police out? Burn down a federal court? Destroy the police station? Take over capitol building and occupy it for several weeks? Attack an elected official's family at their own home because you don't like their policies? Yeah, that happened, but not s…

Grievances about racial inequality are a lot more grounded in reality than QAnon and there was no attempt to disrupt elections, so no, very different situation.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#467

Post by giantrobot »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #206
dlp211 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because doing something and being accused of something don't meet the same bar of evidence. Meanwhile, the Trump and children have been a Masterclass of nepotism and corruption. Let me know when one of Biden's children become an Aide to the President or put in charge of pandemic response, middle east peace, federal government reform, or the dozen other things Javanka was put in charge of despite being absolutely…

Not gonna disagree too much because the nepotism bothered me too, but you absolutely cannot deny the progress Jared Kushner made in his role of coordinating ME peace agreements.

Yes you can. Kushner got some Arab states sharing no border with Israel to concede that Israelis are human beings in trade for sweetheart deals on arms. That's not peace, its token agreements backed by arms deals.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#468

Post by p1necone »

ceejayoz wrote: post #392
trident5000 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point being they didnt cause some stand off or try to burn the place down. They woddled in there, went places they shouldnt have been, and left. Im not defending actions but pointing out the hyperbole.

We’re just gonna pretend they didn’t beat a cop to death on the way in, are we?

Interacting with these people as if they're arguing in good faith isn't going to get you anywhere useful. Question is, how do you interact with these people? And where do you draw the line between assuming ignorance or malice.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#469

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jessedhillon wrote: post #456
jldugger wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People marched into the capitol with handguns, zip ties, and an intent to award the presidency to the loser. I'm not waiting for someone to actually succeed before I declare them insurrectionists, and I don't know why you want to minimize the threats made against Congress, which did not stop that day: https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/no-bail-for-qanon-... If you want to compare it to something, I would recom…

> an intent to award the presidency to the loser How would they have done that? Nobody would listen to a bunch of hooligans pronouncing orders from the House rostrum. In a coup, someone like a general is waiting to hear the signal to throw in with the coup leaders, providing actual institutional power to the usurpers. There was no institutional power behind these people -- do you think some general at Andrews was wai…

I don't know how you can be so confident that there wasn't a general who would have thrown in if he had a chance. Given the statistics, there must be at least a few high-ranking generals who believe Trump's claims that he won the election.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#470

Post by koolba »

trident5000 wrote: post #386
compiler-guy wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They smeared feces, stole laptops, broke windows, killed a police officer and got one of their own killed. People with bullhorns directed their fellows to the next target. It was an insurrection attempt by incompetents and LARPers, but absolutely an insurrection attempt.

It was idiot rioters just like we had over the summer. Not some well planned out attempt to actually overthrow the govt. It was a disrespectful day and they did accomplish that.

At least these rioters showed up at the right place. Breaking into the capital was beyond dumb, but it makes a lot more sense than breaking into a Gucci store.
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