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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#321

Post by babesh »

anonymousDan wrote: post #262
cortesoft wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. This is the really tricky part, though... absolute free expression only prevents people from enacting total control if it persists; however, free speech is not something that can’t be undone. This is a form of the paradox of tolerance. If people use their absolute free speech to push lies and propaganda that al…

Right, lies and propaganda only have to win once.

Nope. As long as there is potential for other powers to grow or counteract it, you have a chance to course correct. Isn’t that what a vote is good for?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#322

Post by spaginal »

imgabe wrote: post #287
Aerroon wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free expression is chaotic. It always has been and it always will be. It will always have lies and misinformation, some people will even believe the lies. But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. Speech that is free will always seed doubt against ideas, regardless whether those ideas are true or false. It's an avenue that allows anything to be questione…

> It will always have lies and misinformation, The misconception is that there is a form of speech that doesn't have lies or misinformation. People seem to imagine that there is some perfect form of moderation that will only present us the unvarnished truth. That simply isn't the case. You're only limiting the lies to those that serve the interest of whoever controls the moderation.

Lack of free speech necessitates an over abundance of control, misinformation, lies, and overt propaganda in order to quell any free thought that would push people to ask questions openly. That is the distinct irony of people saying we must control free speech, thought, and information, in order to prevent misinformation from compelling people to violence or what have you. It doesn’t work that way, and it’s openly promoted on this website quite fervently.

The only speech that brings people back to the middle, away from the extremes, is free speech and open debate. That is it.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#323

Post by foolinaround »

roamerz wrote: post #317
lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Recent events such as the BLM riots or the riot at or nation's capital? I don’t agreer with either though I find it troubling that the politicians seem to be a lot more concerned with their safety than they were about private citizens safety or property during the BLM riots earlier last year. About free speech making the world a better place.. those last 2 words are very subjective. It seems the only voices that were…

law makers always take care of themselves first, and protect their powers.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#324

Post by rayiner »

frostburg wrote: post #292
smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

They're (correctly) scared because they've seen how many of them would support the insurrection.

Is this new information? Something like 1/4 of all Americans support their state seceding from the union. It’s not a new sentiment.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#325

Post by cheeze »

imglorp wrote: post #153

We're also at the point now where you have to ask which cloud is deplatforming a site. (edit, and their state alignment) Case in point, Russia is now routing Parler traffic. https://twitter.com/VickerySec/status/1351227537985318929?s=... https://twitter.com/dtemkin/status/1351240721261584385?s=20 (edit)

Doesn't look like traffic is being routed through Russia, as the first tweet implies. They are using DDOS-Guard, which routes over Telia. In my (US) traceroute, traffic never leaves the states

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#326

Post by bluescrn »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #236
slg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think banning online advertising So you want to limit speech in the name of protecting free speech?

Limiting corporate speech in the name of protecting individual speech seems like a reasonable proposal to me.

Limiting corporate speech seems quite a nice fix to the problem of corporations limiting individual speech

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#327

Post by pixl97 »

lliamander wrote: post #267
erichocean wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything Amazon did was within the terms of their contract. Everything except for 30 days notice. Oops.

And opportunity to cure.

>Amazon started investigating violent threats on Parler in November and reported more than 100 pieces of content over the next seven weeks, but the site never took action, according to one executive.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#328

Post by PradeetPatel »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

You can still be a champion of free speech without tolerating hate speech.

In fact, one may even say that deplatforming hate will achieve a greater level of free speech - due to the lack of misinformation and violent ideologies.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#329

Post by rayiner »

babesh wrote: post #314
cortesoft wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this is also the beauty of free expression - it prevents anyone from using it to enact total control. This is the really tricky part, though... absolute free expression only prevents people from enacting total control if it persists; however, free speech is not something that can’t be undone. This is a form of the paradox of tolerance. If people use their absolute free speech to push lies and propaganda that al…

That is why you need an educated populace. By educated, we mean one that can think critically and independently rather than a college credential.

We’ve got one of the most educated populations in the world. Europe is only recently catching up to is in e.g. the percentage of people with college degrees.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#330

Post by stolen_biscuit »

A portion of your citizens were called to storm your nations capital by a President who refuses to accept the results of a democratic election. The very foundation of your democracy has been eroded. Do not pretend the people who are frightened of these actions are overreacting. Democracy is a fragile thing, and you have a portion of your population who attempted to take a hammer to it.

Don't pretend this is a narrative presented by the elite, I don't listen to your news, I don't read the opinions of your celebrities and newscasters, I watched the videos, I saw the discourse. I am not from your nation, and only have what I have seen from the people who were there and the videos they willingly uploaded to the internet, and the unedited footage of the speeches and the words of your president.

Your nation is in severe distress.

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