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Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

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Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#301

Post by zinekeller »

015a wrote: post #247
mcguire wrote: post #212

Playing the devil's advocate here: is this really "exceptional power"? Before the Internet, fringe, extremist political movements had essentially the same options as every other minor interest group: local groups, physical, mailed newsletters, maybe magazines, booths at whatever kind of group meetings, and maybe news media coverage. All of those options still exist. So the modern state of things hasn't removed anythi…

I agree; but there are a few worrying trends that we need to keep an eye on with respect to this: * IPv4 space. IPv4 addresses are increasingly expensive. In a perfect world we'd just get rid of them, but instead, we live in a world where Amazon owns roughly $3B worth of them. They're critical to serving web content; what happens when centralized corporate mega-powers are the only ones who can afford them, or own the…

> There's no way to just go purchase an ARM chip and host a server in your closet; no one is selling them.

There are indeed readily-available ARM servers from the likes of DellEMC and HPE, and ready-to-integrate motherboards from the likes from Supermicro and Gigabyte, and AMD still sells ARM chips. This is very much opposite of your assertion.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#302

Post by jturpin »

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Perhaps it would be comforting, or not, to know that the recent calls to suppress free speech don't come as a result to any credible threat to democracy and are unilaterally supported from people who have significant political gain to do so.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#303

Post by haberman »

myWindoonn wrote: post #234
MikeUt wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're discussing law as it currently stands, while the original poster proposed changing the law.

To what end are you arguing? Do you honestly think that the 6th Amendment will be repealed, or that strict scrutiny will suddenly not be applied when appropriate? (I suspect that this entire comment thread was started in order to try to pull a rhetorical gotcha, and you didn't actually expect somebody to respond to your words as written, but hopefully you've learned some constitutional law on this beautiful sunny MLK…

How is it a "rhetorical gotcha" to ask what it would look like to consistently apply a proposed principle or law?

Equal protection under the law is also a constitutional principle (I knew that one already, thanks), but it seems in short supply in much of modern thinking and advocacy.

The first question somebody should ask when advocating some kind of measure aimed at their adversaries is: what would it look like if this was applied to my friends also?

Groups like the ACLU used to think this way, which is why they defended the most undesirable groups advancing the most repulsive ideas.

That kind of thinking is going by the wayside as longstanding liberal principles like freedom of speech, due process, presumption of innocence, etc. are all going by the wayside, tarred by their association with the "right wing."

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#304

Post by foolinaround »

foolinaround wrote: post #217

There is now a new risk that needs to be mitigated by the business, that of its business being taken down for any reason at all - subject to the whims of a changing culture, and possibly even outside of the laws of the land one is in. This will hopefully make folks think through the entire supply chain including cloud and SaaS providers. AWS was always like renting an apartment, or even, a fully furnished apartment.…

i see a bunch of replies - stating that Amazon followed the contract.

Regardless, even if 30 days notice is given to a business to change something, it simply might not be enough.

So, the risk as I stated, still stands.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#305

Post by ncallaway »

pixl97 wrote: post #244
sojournerc wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about DNS? ISP? There must be some line. Sure you can build your own server and connect it to the internet, but if you're handing out cards with an IP address, marketability is limited.

IP address connectivity should be a universal right. DNS is trickier, but the root level companies that provide names should be required to host your NS records (not your DNS servers themselves). After that I don't believe the internet owes you anything.

That's where I come out too.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#306

Post by Applejinx »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #240
jariel wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter who you engage with. If 10% of Americans are convinced that QAnon is behind the scenes running the show, and they believe that, and act on it in a variety of ways, then it's a huge problem. I suggest with the election, COVID and QAnon together we are probably already feeling the results of mass misinformation. It's an ugly problem because none of us really want to suppress people for saying somethin…

QAnon is as successful as it is because it is tapping into the cognitive dissonance created by things like federal mishandling of the Epstein case (slow walking allegations made since the 90s, the 2007 sweetheart deal which granted immunity to any unnamed co-conspirators , not having raided Epstein's New Mexico ranch to this day, etc), as well as the fact that wealthy and powerful elites continued to associate with h…

It's as successful as it is because it is KNOWINGLY tapping into the cognitive dissonance, for the purpose of inciting domestic terrorism and the collapse of Western society.

Basically, look at the things you cited as the reason such an attack could be effective, even unanswerable. If the rich people, etc etc, behaved better and weren't awful, it would be a lot harder to mount such an attack. But it was made easy to do, and for that reason the whole 'freedom of speech' thing is nothing more than an attack vector at this point. We've lost that. There is no way it's sustainable the way some people would like it to be sustainable. There are powerful interests, state actors, weaponizing every little shred of freedom to destroy Western society, and I don't see any good answers at this point.

It was a weakness. We could have freedom of speech as long as it wasn't being weaponized on a massive scale against us. We could have freedom of speech so long as massive calculated lying wasn't a primary tactic, so long as people could be taken at face value. That's simply not true anymore.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#307

Post by babesh »

frostburg wrote: post #292
smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

They're (correctly) scared because they've seen how many of them would support the insurrection.

I am far more scared of you and what you would support.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#308

Post by smsm42 »

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

And suppose there even were an insurrection. Strike that - suppose there was a war. We have 20th century behind us. It's not something that happened before history was invented by Herodotus. There are still people alive who have seen shit by their own eyes that would make average twitterati literally wet their pants on the spot just to think about it - and emerged through it without their ideals shattered. We still have Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto sold on Amazon - and nobody is scared of it. Nobody abandons free speech because actual Gulags and actual Nazis actually, not metaphorically, happened. But now somehow people come out and say "maybe free speech isn't that good an idea. I know about Hitler. I know about Stalin. I know about Pol Pot, Osama bin Laden and Radio Of Thousand Hills. None of it have ever shaken me, I knew freedom of speech is important. But now, that's different!" What is going on, seriously? How does it make any sense? Are we being targeted by CIA for one of those mind control experiments again?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#309

Post by Khaine »

alwayseasy wrote: post #113
edbob wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the worst-case scenario if they had succeeded? That they take some people hostage and have a stand-off until the FBI takes them down? There was no path to them attaining any actual power. Their actions were violent and bad, but had no actual effect on anybody outside of D.C. That is not what I call an "existential threat". Again, you have to compare the downsides of free speech vs the downsides of censorship.…

The worst-case scenario is the end of democracy in the USA in the next 15 years. If one side stays convinced the elections were fraudulent and Trump is a victim , it will cause a permanent shift in how Americans see their own democratic elections. Historically, since democracy has existed, that vacuum is always filled by an authoritarian leader.

You mean how one side for the last four years has said that Trump "stole" the election due to Russian interference.

The fact is, this is all whataboutism. This is all due to instructional failure. Americans increasing do not trust the institutions, the media, the government, 'elites'. This lack of trust is the root cause for growing conspiracy theories. The answer to this is not to stifle speech, but to have more speech. After all, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#310

Post by nixgeek »

015a wrote: post #247
mcguire wrote: post #212

Playing the devil's advocate here: is this really "exceptional power"? Before the Internet, fringe, extremist political movements had essentially the same options as every other minor interest group: local groups, physical, mailed newsletters, maybe magazines, booths at whatever kind of group meetings, and maybe news media coverage. All of those options still exist. So the modern state of things hasn't removed anythi…

I agree; but there are a few worrying trends that we need to keep an eye on with respect to this: * IPv4 space. IPv4 addresses are increasingly expensive. In a perfect world we'd just get rid of them, but instead, we live in a world where Amazon owns roughly $3B worth of them. They're critical to serving web content; what happens when centralized corporate mega-powers are the only ones who can afford them, or own the…

Wiwynn will sell you ARM systems with Ampere Altra CPUs today. Systems integrators like Phoenics are booking orders, and various reviews for Mt Jade and Mt Snow suggest they’re not awful platforms.
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