Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#191

Post by slcjordan » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #32

zarkov99 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hindsight and all that. Parler has hosted content no worse than Twitter or Facebook or thousands of other sites. Their banning from AWS could not have been reasonably anticipated. It was an unprecedented act of censorship in response to an unprecedented moment in American history. The world will learn and AWS will likely loose a few customers though not enough to change its policies.

> Parler has hosted content no worse than Twitter or Facebook or thousands of other sites. Nonsense. Parler was created because Twitter and Facebook were moderating content. If Twitter and Facebook hadn't been moderating hate speech, Parler would not exist. Posting voices and content which is banned on Twitter and Facebook is the single unique "Feature" of Parler. Over the months, Amazon has been in contact with Parl…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't some of the Parler violent content and speech that violated the TOS still on Twitter in the form of screenshots? Or have there been efforts by big tech to remove them too?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#192

Post by alwayseasy » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

antibuddy wrote: post #143

alwayseasy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst-case scenario is the end of democracy in the USA in the next 15 years. If one side stays convinced the elections were fraudulent and Trump is a victim , it will cause a permanent shift in how Americans see their own democratic elections. Historically, since democracy has existed, that vacuum is always filled by an authoritarian leader.

However, what if the election really was fraudulent? I mean the video in Georgia after the election observer were sent home, were pretty incriminating. Also seeing how BLM got backing and did way more damage, makes this all look pretty one-sided. It's only okay if they do it.

Interestingly, the democrats would have fixed the elections but only managed to win the Senate in a tight run-off?

After spending $100 million, the Trump campaign's legal team found no admissible evidence of election fraud, just videos they can use for future campaigns attacking democracy.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#193

Post by Traubenfuchs » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

api wrote: post #2

If I were running something likely to be deplatformed, I would never consider anything but a multi-cloud solution where no single provider is a single point of failure. It's not that hard to do.

Multicloud? The cool kids call it polynimbus.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#194

Post by cousin_it » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #112

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

I don't think there's a credible threat to civilization, but perhaps a credible threat to our prevailing thoughts on governance. There is no good justification that the people of Los Angeles should have to live under the rules and cultural customs of Mobile Alabama. Nor should the people of Mobile Alabama be forced to live under the rules and cultural norms of Los Angeles. As long as we re forced to toggle back and f…

It's a pretty dark path then. There aren't many examples of countries separating peacefully.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#195

Post by yissp » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #130

edbob wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? The recent riots seem to be more than adequately handled through existing law enforcement procedures. Obviously the police can't prevent every crime, but in this case investigation and prosecution seems to be enough to remove bad actors. We know what the consequences of free speech are, and even if the downsides are amplified 1000x by its enemies, the do…

>What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? The recent riots seem to be more than adequately handled through existing law enforcement procedures. The crowd (who had previously been chanting "hang Mike Pence") came within about 30 seconds of being face to face with Vice President Pence and some large fraction of Congress (source [0]). They came very close to being overrun before the building was e…

Law enforcement has been failing to take the threat of right-wing extremism seriously for a long time. I think that's what we should be focused on addressing instead of clamping down on speech. The situation at the capitol should never have been allowed to escalate to the point that it did.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#196

Post by jariel » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #118

lisper wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is "a credible existential threat to civilization" to you? For example: a delusional or demagogic leader who promulgates lies about the outcome of an election in order to fire up a mob and incite them to attempt to violently take over the seat of government of a country with nuclear weapons. Not that such a thing would ever actually happen. I guess I'm just a worrier.

> fire up a mob and incite them to attempt to violently take over the seat of government of a country with nuclear weapons You know the buttons/switches/etc to launch missiles (nuclear or not) are not at the Speaker's podium in the House, right? In fact, "taking over the seat of government" here was literally just that.. a physical seat. The US government applies authority in people via roles not via seating position…

"Was it a "violent take over"? Not a chance"

Sure it was.

This is how a 'coup' works - the objective is not to 'take control of the country' by force, but of the political system.

If that violent mob was successful in 'stopping the count' - then it very seriously threatens the legitimacy of Biden being president.

Why do you think that Congress reconvened right after the violence and very quickly pushed through the vote? And didn't wait a few days?

If the vote confirmation doesn't take place, someone takes the case to SCOTUS wherein they might rule the process was not complete and 'now you have two Presidents' - and very ugly ambiguous situation that could spiral out of control very quickly.

The fact that SCOTUS could have ruled 'incomplete process' may embolden millions of 'hard Constitutionalists' to one side.

This stuff happens all over the world, all the time. These things are fragile.

It was a nice little lesson in how actually fragile 'even the USA is' and that this is serious stuff.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#197

Post by ardy42 » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #144

pmlnr wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it's obvious from the context, but examples include denying the holocaust being a crime.

I don't see why a future collapse into tyranny of a country in Europe would have to involve a revival of the symbols of any particular defeated regime. If they needed symbols for propaganda purposes, they'd draw from legal symbol pools, like Roman culture. (It "worked" once...) More likely, they would draw from contemporary symbols that already had positive sentiment associated with them. The point being, it's not cl…

> I don't see why a future collapse into tyranny of a country in Europe would have to involve a revival of the symbols of any particular defeated regime.

In the US, at least, the current (seemingly unsuccessful) slouch towards tyranny definitely does involve the revival symbols of a particular defeated regime: the Confederacy (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/Kevin-Seefried-arreste...).

Though it might not really be a "revival," since the symbols were never really killed off in the first place. A lot of the flashpoints building up to this one involved removal of these symbols.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#198

Post by sojournerc » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #170

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Honestly I think the legal status quo is pretty close to ideal: governments may not limit speech, but platforms can clamp down on anything they want. The only problem with the platforms is that they still somewhat cling to the idea that they won’t censor speech, which is frankly ridiculous. Of course they will censor, they should just admit it and clamp down any speech they find abhorrent. Allow the marketplace (and…

What about DNS? ISP?

There must be some line. Sure you can build your own server and connect it to the internet, but if you're handing out cards with an IP address, marketability is limited.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#199

Post by amelius » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

cccc4all wrote: post #150

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Always question everything you are told, especially by central authorities, mainstream popular media, etc. Seek out information from variety of sources and discern the truth from fiction. What you may think is evidence may be completely opposite of what it actually is. Especially any narratives that are pushed to convince people to voluntarily give up privacy and freedoms. Just look at all the regular people going ar…

> Always question everything you are told, especially by central authorities, mainstream popular media, etc.

This is how conspiracy theories start.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#200

Post by pbourke » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #170

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Honestly I think the legal status quo is pretty close to ideal: governments may not limit speech, but platforms can clamp down on anything they want. The only problem with the platforms is that they still somewhat cling to the idea that they won’t censor speech, which is frankly ridiculous. Of course they will censor, they should just admit it and clamp down any speech they find abhorrent. Allow the marketplace (and…

The status quo has brought us to today. The platforms only act when they see that the political winds have shifted. There were precisely zero “profiles in courage” among the platforms until after the election. We can expect nothing more - they’re businesses beholden to investors and regulators above all else.