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HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

rachelbythebay.com

341–350 of 471 posts

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am writing an MA thesis on cultural conflict between engineers and management. I would suggest reading works from the field of CMS - critical management studies. You can find lots of articles available, with no paywalls, through google scholar. I would start with Alvesson's work on CMS. We've actually used CMS to improve recruitment and retention of engineers in an organization. I subscribe to hard realism. We can'…

A lot of those things are hard to achieve - we would all, I think, like to hear more about how.

I have been running an experiment for the last year, and will also be interviewing professional developers, outside of my circles, as part of my research. Management and engineering cultures have been described as orthogonal, and the standard approach may be characterized as getting engineering to conform to management values.

Leadership has to be realist enough to understand that a) tech talent has other options b) managers have to commit to transparent dialogue and culture that is attractive to engineers, or pay talent higher than competitors.

With the fix-and-cheat in software fiascos such as Boeing 737 Max crashes and Volkswagen emission scandals,to name just two, this is a serious concern. With software eating the world, it will continue to grow in global magnitude.

Treating people with respect is not hard, it's just often not done in the corporate environment.

Right now I am consulting my university as to what would be appropriate to do the research anonymously, as close to truly as possible, to protect the sources, yet still have academic rigor.

My problem is that early on, I was interviewing engineers at a well-known San-Francisco company. That company had engaged in paranoid spy-craft, such as having developers followed, as well as the standard emails read, etc. My email was under continuous attacks and several trojans were sent to my personal phone (which I had not published online, nor had linked to my name in any records). So it looks like I have to protect my identity as well, to protect my sources. This is one of my current challenges.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#342
post #320

I really don't enjoy the tone here. The derision with which it speaks about managers, like they are either evil or incompetent, is unfair in my experience. (my) Managers are just people. They have a task, they do their best to get that task done. Sometimes they decisions that seem bad to me. Often that is because I misunderstand their goals. Sometimes, it is because I know something they don't, and something they cou…

Sounds like someone's never had a bad manager haha. Trust me, they're out there, and they're dreadful.

The article reads like someone who's spent some time in industry.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#343
post #306

Agreed with one small correction, HR is your friend before you join the company simply because internal recruiters fall under HR and recruiters are your friends. Literally paid to try and place you into the company. Back to topic - HR is a tool. Their job is to keep the company from getting sued by employees, the government and sometimes unions over bad practices. If the company is large enough they also report to th…

> "recruiters are your friends" They are not. They may act like it, but they represent the company they work for, and ultimately their own interests. Some recruiters have enough integrity to be honest with you, but some don't. If you want to know who you can trust, you need to know what motivates them. You can trust they will act in those interests. You can trust them to act in your interest when your interests align…

Agreed, yes. Recruiters generally do want to place you and collect their fee, but few would have any qualms placing you at a terrible firm that pays well (=good fee) and keeps you doing the same shit for a year before going under, rather than a place that pays less but has great corporate culture and an engaging job with growth potential.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#344
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And nor does anyone have a 'career'. You have a job. When you lose that job, you may not get another one. It's an illusion. One minute you think you are a high profile manager with budgets and power. The next you are packing your desk up into a box and rethinking your entire life. We are not our careers!

I am always terrified of losing my job. It's a fear I've had even though I've been a top performer the entire five years I've been professionally working. Maybe it's because I grew up poor or because I think things are too good in tech and about to crash any day. My antidote? $100k in liquidity. Preferably not invested in the NASDAQ. If tech crashes, you can take your liquid $100k and move to Thailand, Spain, Portuga…

I grew up "how am I going to eat?" poor, and I find i'm the opposite with work and money. I take risks, see it all as one big game because I know being poor isn't the end of the world. It is really shit, but i'll survive it. I know what it is like.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#345
post #220
post #2

Oof, this hits home. Out of college I worked for a large company that's well-known for hiring lots of folks straight out of undergrad with high salaries and a demand of high hours. Despite an almost cultlike devotion to meritocracy and micro-feedback, the "merits" only mattered if it was in furtherance of already established norms of success. In a large company like that, deviation wasn't viewed as having a unique sk…

Some of the most heavily mismanaged places I have worked at have been startups. All sorts of insane people, particularly at management level, but also rank-and-file. Large companies have standardized interview and background checking processes on top of fairly standard requirements of candidates (educational qualification etc.) that work to root out pyschopaths and just plain weirdos, most of the time. No such luck a…

I seem to recall studies that upper management in large companies has about 2.5x as many sociopaths as the general population.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#346
post #102

IT is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Legal is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Janitorial staff is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Sales is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Marketing is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Your co-worker is not your friend either (at first, or may never be).

I've had coworkers who put other coworkers first.

Ive never seen or heard of an HR department that didn't put the dictates of management first.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#347
post #320

I really don't enjoy the tone here. The derision with which it speaks about managers, like they are either evil or incompetent, is unfair in my experience. (my) Managers are just people. They have a task, they do their best to get that task done. Sometimes they decisions that seem bad to me. Often that is because I misunderstand their goals. Sometimes, it is because I know something they don't, and something they cou…

> sometimes their goals are somewhat self serving

That's what it means to be evil :)

> But often it just has to do with [...]

Making excuses for bad behaviour improves nothing, least of all your life.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#348
post #318
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am always terrified of losing my job. It's a fear I've had even though I've been a top performer the entire five years I've been professionally working. Maybe it's because I grew up poor or because I think things are too good in tech and about to crash any day. My antidote? $100k in liquidity. Preferably not invested in the NASDAQ. If tech crashes, you can take your liquid $100k and move to Thailand, Spain, Portuga…

> $100k in liquidity. That of course puts you into the 1% of people in terms of liquidity. Quite a lot of people are a long way below that: https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2019-economic-we... Retirement saving are interesting because for a whole bunch of public policy reasons most people have illiquid retirement savings. > move to Thailand, Spain, Portugal, Turkey Check your visa requirements: can you rea…

In Turkey you can get residency with investing in real estate. Not sure if there is a minimum investment required but doubt it.

Does not give you the right to work though.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#349

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

Holy shit this is the most privileged mindset.

Do you know people who aren't coders?

You know we live and work in some sort of dream land and 99% of people in other jobs don't have anywhere near this level of freedom and bargaining power.

You will sell yourself short by forgetting this. Coding isn't guaranteed to stay like this - as tooling gets better and better and more people get into it we will be seen less and less like wizards.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about Thailand and it really depends on your lifestyle, but 100k will get you through 2-3 years at most in the other countries, if you live in an urban setting, not really pinching pennies.

I live in London (one of the most expensive places in Europe), and it'd take me 5-6 years to get through that. And I'm not overly careful with my money. Of course this is as a single person. It'd be different if you had a family to support, etc.

do you not have rent to pay?

6 years of extremely cheap 600gbp/month rent is ~$us60k

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