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HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

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Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#201

Post by scaramanga »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #67
jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Democracy exists or should exist outside the companies, creating the laws that constrain contract law. Companies are basically one person (at the top) trading money for work with the people doing what they are paid for. The person doing the work could of course say hey I don't want to do this job I want to do something else instead but I want you to still pay me the same amount, or more. That wouldn't really be about…

Corporations are legally constituted. A society should be allowed to decide whether they want to grant corporations a license to operate or not and, if so, then under what conditions. After all, you can freely chose to accept the limitations of your corporate charter, or you can take a lovely hike without being granted one at all.

I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting that employees be able to do whatever they want without limit and still be entitled to a pay cheque from a corporation.

Just as nobody would suggest that some despicable organisation be granted a legal charter to perform some anti-social, destructive, or massively wasteful activities... (sarcasm alert!) :)

But I think that, despite taking different routes, we arrive at the same conclusion that, yes, there are also positive legislative actions that could be taken (healthcare, UBI, others) which would effectively incentivize decent corporate behaviour without needing to set specific new rules or limits.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#202

Post by koonsolo »

jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position.

I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money.

In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but first have to get them up to speed to get to the same productivity level as me. They lose, and I even might gain a raise. So they better make sure they don't piss me off.

If you have this kind of mindset, people can't fuck with you.

Take for example a manager that says "Hey, this customer expects it to go in production on Monday, so make sure you finish it this week, maybe do some weekend work". Now the problem is in your lap. What you do is you push that shit right back, so you tell your manager "Why did you promise this customer it will be finished on Monday? You're going to be in a lot of trouble when it isn't. Maybe next time check with the developers first about the time schedule, then you don't end up in situations like this again."

You have to educate your managers a bit.

I know that some people will respond "not every employee is in this position to make demands". Well, it's all about how valuable your skills are. Make sure you can do things that other people can't, and you put yourself in a position where you always have the option to go work for another company.

A company selling services to other companies, is not that different than a person selling services to companies.

Feudal system my ass.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#203

Post by fabianhjr »

Rapzid wrote: post #191
r00fus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can move countries too. It’s meant to be difficult for most (easier for the elite).

Do you mean moving countries is difficult? It is difficult, particularly after a certain age and without the right qualifications.

Well, it is way easier to move from a developed nation to a developing nation. Try the other way around for a challenge.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#205

Post by coldtea »

nyokodo wrote: post #189
coldtea wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was in no way a good life to be a serf. Life was literally nasty, brutish, and short - even putting aside armed conflict and external dangers. That's the "old wives tale" version. Life wasn't particularly nasty or brutish, modern scholarship has re-evaluated the Middle Ages, and the "short" part was similar to 19th century levels due to infant mortality (and otherwise similar to 19-century standards), and has li…

> frequent wars The vast majority of wars in the Middle Ages would be considered mere skirmishes by modern standards.

Yes, and in many case the 'civilians' were not affected, it was mostly professional armies and mercenaries.

The "popular/people's army" (armies of common folk) come later (though, of course, we have examples of it in the ancient world too, as well as examples where common folk to the short end of the stick during conflict. It was just not that common in feudal times).

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#206

Post by vmception »

jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

There is a huge problem with you comparing a feudal system to an inclusive democracy

At least in the feudal system the peasants knew their energy would not amount to changing anything!

All we have now is lifelong cognitive dissonance after children are told they have a say.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#207

Post by fabianhjr »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #66
tehjoker wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we tried to make it so there were no lords? Just a thought.

Others in recent history have tried this. Do we know how it went for them?

Mondragon, Orbea, and others are doing great.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#208

Post by pugworthy »

drstewart wrote: post #43

IT is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Legal is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Janitorial staff is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Sales is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Marketing is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

So who is your friend? Your team? I mean they work for the company, not you.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#209

Post by klodolph »

koonsolo wrote: post #202
jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

Are you under the impression that everyone here is in the same kind of position of power that you are?

1. Not everyone here is a coder.

2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high.

3. Not everyone lives in a part of the US with multiple employers that they could work for (relocation may be infeasible for various reasons).

4. The company may be sponsoring the worker's visa.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#210

Post by abiogenesis »

skissane wrote: post #198
_Microft wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more a problem of the US american healthcare system than one of the nature of the employer-employee relationship.

Yes exactly. In my country (Australia), the majority of employers don't pay for health insurance. Either you rely on the public health system, or you pay for private health cover yourself. So, losing my job, or changing jobs, has no direct impact on my health insurance (beyond the impact on my ability to afford private health cover if there is any reduction of income)

It's also worth adding that the public health system is pretty good, or at least better than some other "first world" countries.
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