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HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

rachelbythebay.com

271–280 of 471 posts

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#271

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

You know, now I wonder why hiring isn't bottom up. Most companies have higher levels find lower levels, but what if it was the other way around? Could this actually create more profitable companies? Ones that would be better run?

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#272
post #122

Reminds me of The Gervais Principle, which is also excellent: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Thanks a lot - Rachel’s article as well as the one you linked to hit home extremely hard. Besides the comics (re: macleod, dilbert, the office) or this very article - is there a field that occupies itself seriously with the described kind of dynamic? Or a good forum where these things are discussed? I’m looking for further information to deepen my understanding or a forum to bounce off thoughts and exchange experienc…

I am writing an MA thesis on cultural conflict between engineers and management. I would suggest reading works from the field of CMS - critical management studies. You can find lots of articles available, with no paywalls, through google scholar. I would start with Alvesson's work on CMS.

We've actually used CMS to improve recruitment and retention of engineers in an organization. I subscribe to hard realism. We can't pay like FAANG, and we can't promise a fast career track. What do we offer? Oh, lots of things that don't cost money but are highly valued by engineers. Honesty. Transparent culture - who gets paid more, promoted, and why. Engineering excellence - management does not decide on tech choices, all decisions are negotiated from the principle of compromise between excellence, financial viability and short-and long-term benefits. Not dictatorial "transformational" leadership, with "agile" on top.

Guaranteed no overtime for engineers. Flexible schedules. The opportunity to participate, in an active, self-determined, ethics-steered way, in creating tech solutions that impact millions of humans positively, with no moral gray areas.

This particular org is honest about not giving "fuck-you money", but it also guarantees not bidding on military contracts, manipulating people to the lowest denominator, or engaging in surveillance capitalism.

From the earliest recruitment communication, we make it clear that we don't do corporate cringe. No inspirational coaches. No transformational coaches. No coaches, period. We don't do "teambuilding" exercises. We do send people to conferences, on the company dime, and have the option of on-the-payroll personal project, for those that want it.

  Surprising how easy it is to compete for talent with idiot companies that expect "loyalty" that they translate as "blind obedience through fear".

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#273

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Difference is that for most of the serfs, it is possible to switch feudals and kings much more easily than in the olden days. And even in the last decades this mobility especially worldwide, has increased. This is very hopeful I think as in the coming century this should slowly move people to a more positive place, all things considered.

Coming from the startup world, I used to investigate those issues quite deeply, as in “how do you run an organization that would be different, better”. One of the most interesting works in that area for me was “Reinventing Organizations” by Laloux. (https://www.reinventingorganizations.com) it kinda studies if this is even possible and what would organizations like that look like. TLDR it is possible and there are quite a few real world examples. Hopefully more and more each decade.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#274
post #102

IT is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Legal is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Janitorial staff is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Sales is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Marketing is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

Your co-worker is not your friend either (at first, or may never be).

I've had co-workers who I considered friends but was disabused of that thought once they no longer needed me for something.

Workplaces are funny environments, they aren't natural places to be.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#275
post #220
post #2

Oof, this hits home. Out of college I worked for a large company that's well-known for hiring lots of folks straight out of undergrad with high salaries and a demand of high hours. Despite an almost cultlike devotion to meritocracy and micro-feedback, the "merits" only mattered if it was in furtherance of already established norms of success. In a large company like that, deviation wasn't viewed as having a unique sk…

Some of the most heavily mismanaged places I have worked at have been startups. All sorts of insane people, particularly at management level, but also rank-and-file. Large companies have standardized interview and background checking processes on top of fairly standard requirements of candidates (educational qualification etc.) that work to root out pyschopaths and just plain weirdos, most of the time. No such luck a…

That's no much good if you are a psychopath or weirdo though.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#276
post #42

HR is not your friend and your company is not your family. Regardless of intent there are commercial realities that exist within the context of a company that may never be present in a non-work relationship. This has varying degrees of impact on the nature of the relationship itself and may not present itself until you are at your most vulnerable. I find that a collegial environment with shared goals and responsibili…

Exactly. And nor does anyone have a 'career'. You have a job. When you lose that job, you may not get another one. It's an illusion. One minute you think you are a high profile manager with budgets and power. The next you are packing your desk up into a box and rethinking your entire life. We are not our careers!

You established that no one has a career, so we can't be our careers.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#277
post #76

IT is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Legal is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Janitorial staff is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Sales is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you. Marketing is not your friend either. They work for the company, not for you.

This is the starry-eyed, optimistic view of workplaces. In fact, in each case management works for themselves. HR, most of all. While engineering management has some pressure toward development goals, sales toward sales targets, and top management toward business development, HR has no such objective targets. Typically they even farm out recruiting. What motivates HR management? In most companies, HR is the center of…

My experience with HR is not that bad :-). Dealt with them in few occasions and I found them to be helpful, at least from where I was looking at the subject.

I can totally agree that they are not competent and not dedicated, as far as my personal experience goes. But the corruption I have not seen.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#278
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am always terrified of losing my job. It's a fear I've had even though I've been a top performer the entire five years I've been professionally working. Maybe it's because I grew up poor or because I think things are too good in tech and about to crash any day. My antidote? $100k in liquidity. Preferably not invested in the NASDAQ. If tech crashes, you can take your liquid $100k and move to Thailand, Spain, Portuga…

Not sure about Thailand and it really depends on your lifestyle, but 100k will get you through 2-3 years at most in the other countries, if you live in an urban setting, not really pinching pennies.

I can tell you that you can live in the center of a French city for like 10 years on that money. You won’t have a crazy lifestyle but you can live in the center and do groceries and the occasional restaurants and drinks for that money. Most people would take like 5 years to make that much AT LEAST.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#279
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am always terrified of losing my job. It's a fear I've had even though I've been a top performer the entire five years I've been professionally working. Maybe it's because I grew up poor or because I think things are too good in tech and about to crash any day. My antidote? $100k in liquidity. Preferably not invested in the NASDAQ. If tech crashes, you can take your liquid $100k and move to Thailand, Spain, Portuga…

Not sure about Thailand and it really depends on your lifestyle, but 100k will get you through 2-3 years at most in the other countries, if you live in an urban setting, not really pinching pennies.

Spain's minimum wage is 1000 EUR/month. 100k$ (82k€) will give you 6 years of living if you don't spend it all on useless things.

Portugal is even "better" with a minimum wage of 750€/month

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#280

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

>> now the problem is in your lap.

I agree with your point but ultimately, why not have the engineer document how long the last cycle took to get into production. So when the manager asks, hey do this in 70% of the time, you have reference to live recent data that it’s impossible.

Or even simpler. Manager asks to finish something and have it live in Y days.

You will finish it in Y days because the last project needed an additonal 3 days and you communicated that immediately back then, so your manager already has provided a solution by the time you’re ready for the next development cycle or sprint. Hence Y days should be computed with feedback you already communicated from the last cycle.

>> You have to educate your managers a bit.

Ironically, this could come off as feudal since a manager is “senior” in terms of time and experience at the same company. In which you are currently a junior. How often will a manager be like “so glad you educated me on my own delivery and timelines, you were right!” Versus hey, that’s my job, you worry about yours and I got mine.

I think the word “synchronize” (delivery times for production, ie) applies better than educate.

Why worry about educating them if you’ve set a self-expectation to communicate immediately when something is not as expected. Or as initially agreed between the employee and their team or manager (s).

Majority of these empathy gaps b/w managers and engineers is actually the byproduct of failed communication protocols that both parties can maximize upon assuming consistent internet service (unfortunately still not the case or available with examples of significant gains. The moment you start caring about how another feels or thinks towards your execution, work, or biz strategy, gg.

You are now thinking about what others are thinking, and planning all these scenarios to ensure you act accordingly + optimally. This whole hr analogy shouldn’t even exist - it reminds me or read receipts on iMessage. Back in the old day, you didn’t have the information of when someone actually opened your mail indoors.

All I’m saying is to forget about the hierarchy + roles and just crisp clean communication up front.

Any gaps in understanding means that you needed to communicate much clearer, earlier. Versus, omg hr might be out to get me or something.

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