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HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

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Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#261

Post by hyko »

koonsolo wrote: post #202
jiggawatts wrote: post #14

Many people think that they live in a free democracy. In reality, something like 50% of all working people are employed in a strict hierarchical organisation that is essentially feudal in its nature. Most employees are the equivalent of serfs, overseen by lords, with a king in charge. The common employees don't get a vote. Their managers are not elected. They don't get a say in policy. The managers in turn form a str…

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

If I leave for another company

Yeah that’s not a powerful move, that’s the equivalent of leaving the country. What happens if they’re all run along the exact same lines? You can start your own I guess, which is not feasible for most people.

That’s why we require the democratically elected leviathan to limit the power these people have over others.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#262

Post by jay_kyburz »

keiferski wrote: post #233
koonsolo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

The overwhelming majority of people have whatever job they can get. They don't get to be selective, because they have bills, and kids, and rent to pay.

The size of your rent and bills is largely in your hands. Too many people sell themselves into slavery for a nice car or big TV.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#263

Post by jay_kyburz »

rellekio wrote: post #258
apatters wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, this is counterfactual hyperbole. In actual feudalism, if you disagreed with the king he could arbitrarily kill you or jail you. Sure, corporations are lame and if you work for one you're a cog in a machine, I agree it can suck. But it's crazy to suggest that this somehow invalidates democracy. The first job of a functioning government is to establish a monopoly on violence and prevent it from being used aga…

I think you place too much emphasis on violence. As there are things worse than death or physical harm. Just as the face of war changed from a physical one to an economic one. Democratic nation with a strong Oligarchy. Who over years forged q corpocracy that obfuscate such via citizens united. The basis in which we operate is democratic, but popular public policies are rarely enacted. As to why you put too much empha…

I don't agree that there is anything worse than death.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#264

Post by shard »

anticristi wrote: post #255
keiferski wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming majority of people have whatever job they can get. They don't get to be selective, because they have bills, and kids, and rent to pay.

The overwhelming majority of people don't live in the US. In Europe, you have access to free healthcare, unemployment and education. It's not a silver bullet, but it significantly reduced your vulnerability to eating shit from your current employer. Why the US doesn't value safety nets and collective action is beyond me.

Continuing that line of reasoning, the overwhelming majority of people don't live in Europe either. They live in India, China, Africa, South America where free healthcare, unemployment, and education are not always available.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#265

Post by krzyk »

klodolph wrote: post #209
koonsolo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

Are you under the impression that everyone here is in the same kind of position of power that you are? 1. Not everyone here is a coder. 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high. 3. Not everyone lives in a part of the US with multiple employers that they could work for (relocation may be infeasible for various reasons). 4. The company may be spons…

> 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high.

I don't have much stats, but this is true in countries that I know of: US, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, India

So I wouldn't expect other countries to be much different, it might depend on company you work for, if you stay in small < 10 people places, you won't get much salary as a coder.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#266

Post by baxtr »

zanny wrote: post #193
baxtr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I wonder: is a well run feudal system more successful business wise than a democracy? A democracy sounds nice but I have experienced that it slows down a business because everybody wants to participate and speak their mind. No decision is accepted but constantly challenged. Progress is slowed down. Maybe we just did “the wrong way”. But still. On the other hand the most successful company on this planet Apple is…

There's a wealth of statistical data that shows that cooperatives are more resilient and stable than classical owner run enterprise, here's a Stanford paper citing a lot of good sources on it[1]. Largely the reason so few businesses are cooperatives is because if you are an active participant in the founding of a business its in your own self interest to retain as much power over it as possible, which leads you to wa…

Interesting. Can you name large successful companies run as a democracy / cooperative? Apple, Google, Amazon etc. are clearly very hierarchical.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#267

Post by MaulingMonkey »

klodolph wrote: post #209
koonsolo wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to view the world like this? This kind of mindset puts you in a very weak position. I look at it like this: I work for a company because it's a win-win. They need some work done, and I need money. In fact, as a coder, the company is the one in the weak position. If I leave for another company, I can get paid the exact same amount instantly. They will have to get a new person, pay them the same, but fi…

Are you under the impression that everyone here is in the same kind of position of power that you are? 1. Not everyone here is a coder. 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high. 3. Not everyone lives in a part of the US with multiple employers that they could work for (relocation may be infeasible for various reasons). 4. The company may be spons…

Some of us remember successfully saying "no" well before we became coders.

Even for supposedly low skill minimum wage jobs, finding reliable employees that show up on time, don't steal, don't get high at work, stick around and get things done, and otherwise aren't a pain in the ass to work with - can be a time sink and cost. Even the most selfish manager may tolerate some pushback and some "no"s if it means they don't have to go through all the work to hire someone "better" (which might require hiring and firing a lot of unknowns to arrive at, even if there's plenty of applicants.)

The vengeful and dysfunctional might fire you anyways, even if it's more work for them, if only to flex their power. The downsizing might not want to replace people. Life circumstances might mean you can't be reliable and are already on the fence (or - to put it another way - you might already be saying "no" to too much to say "no" to more without getting fired.)

So, sure, there are people without power. But - perhaps it's not quite as bad as jiggawatts is making it out to be either.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#268

Post by kome »

It makes me sad that a lot of people see this article as "cynical but realistic" and it "hits home"...

Many people, especially in STEAM need to be trained to critical thinking. That would avoid them to drink the corporate ideological kool aid before starting their career. Of course the HR is not your friend. Corporation thrives by exploiting you. Full stop.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#269

Post by akmarinov »

_nrv9 wrote: post #90
firecall wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And nor does anyone have a 'career'. You have a job. When you lose that job, you may not get another one. It's an illusion. One minute you think you are a high profile manager with budgets and power. The next you are packing your desk up into a box and rethinking your entire life. We are not our careers!

I am always terrified of losing my job. It's a fear I've had even though I've been a top performer the entire five years I've been professionally working. Maybe it's because I grew up poor or because I think things are too good in tech and about to crash any day. My antidote? $100k in liquidity. Preferably not invested in the NASDAQ. If tech crashes, you can take your liquid $100k and move to Thailand, Spain, Portuga…

Not sure about Thailand and it really depends on your lifestyle, but 100k will get you through 2-3 years at most in the other countries, if you live in an urban setting, not really pinching pennies.

Re: HR is not your friend, and other things I think you should know

#270

Post by klodolph »

krzyk wrote: post #265
klodolph wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you under the impression that everyone here is in the same kind of position of power that you are? 1. Not everyone here is a coder. 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high. 3. Not everyone lives in a part of the US with multiple employers that they could work for (relocation may be infeasible for various reasons). 4. The company may be spons…

> 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high. I don't have much stats, but this is true in countries that I know of: US, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, India So I wouldn't expect other countries to be much different, it might depend on company you work for, if you stay in small < 10 people places, you won't get much salary as a coder.

Is it possible that the entire reason that you know about the coding salaries for these countries is precisely because the salaries for coding are high there?

Like, I live in the US, and I knew someone who transferred to Switzerland and got a pay raise for cost of living increase. So when you mentioned Switzerland I was thinking, "Well, yeah. Zurich is an expensive place to live, and there are some big engineering offices there." But I've also met software engineers who seemed pretty miserable when I've traveled to other countries.

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