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Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

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Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#81

Post by asiando »

seanwilson wrote: post #44
Nextgrid wrote: post #8

In addition to the money argument raised in another comment, the Apple development experience is a major annoyance when all you need is a couple lines of JS. I have an extension idea; it's literally a single line of JS. However, to get it into Safari, I need to create a (useless, and empty) Mac app with a specific configuration in Xcode that'll allow it to appear in the "extensions" list in Safari. Then I need to dea…

> I have an extension idea; it's literally a single line of JS. However, to get it into Safari, I need to create a (useless, and empty) Mac app with a specific configuration in Xcode that'll allow it to appear in the "extensions" list in Safari. Then I need to deal with all the signing & App Store distribution stuff if I actually want to distribute it. Probably less annoying, but there's still a time and effort cost…

Come on you can’t compare what it takes to submit an update on those two. Literally 5 clicks and drop a zip on the page, so long as they don’t single you out for manual review.

Apple requires a thousand clicks, a 11GB app on your computer and the manual review every time.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#82

Post by asiando »

gnicholas wrote: post #66

My startup has two Chrome extensions, and we also have an Apple developer account. But even still, we haven't prioritized releasing an extension for Safari. We'll probably do it eventually, but over the last 6 years we just haven't received that many requests for Safari (desktop) support. It literally might be 3 requests per year. I think this is because people who use extensions just don't use Safari, and therefore…

Regular web extension support downloaded from the Chrome web store? I’m interested

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#83

Post by asiando »

floatingatoll wrote: post #30

The most popular web extensions are those that deprive sites of direct and indirect revenue, which necessarily means they can’t charge for the service or their userbase would revolt and steal their rule sets (which is easy to do for a web extension). Having to pay money for such things goes against the grain of those users, and the sort of breakage that people think is acceptable for content blockers isn’t quite as a…

Hey check out the App Store, it’s full of paid Safari content-blockers. I begrudgingly bought one on Mac because the alternatives are trash.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#84

Post by asiando »

arusahni wrote: post #51
burtonator wrote: post #29

So this is is a MAJOR flaw with WebExtension design. Each uses a separate URI scheme. So Chrome uses chrome-extension: Firefox uses firefox-extension: ... etc. which means web extensions for Firefox won't work with Google Firebase because they only support chrome-extension. Why the heck isn't it web-extension: ???

WebExtension was started by Mozilla, and is based on Chrome's extension API. Google has no incentive to support the project.

It’s funny that they have their own corner of the web where they own the entire API and the rest have to follow. Just because Mozilla and Apple share most of the API it doesn’t mean that Google won’t change it, in fact Manifest v3 is coming soon.

Mozilla has implemented additional APIs that are never going back into Chrome because Google doesn’t care and doesn’t have to.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#85

Post by rfoo »

JohnBooty wrote: post #80
coldtea wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague. That's because you're a developer that works in different platforms ("Apple, Android, Windows, Linux"). So you probably spend most of the time working in some other platform, and doing macOS work for you is just an annoyance, having to context switch to another pr…

That's also why (forcing more people to use XCode and thus the official APIs, BitCode, and so on), they can introduce a whole new architecture like AS and have macOS apps support it from day one, or old x86 apps running smoothly translated. It's a failure of HN culture that posts like this get downvoted. You can like it, loathe it, or feel somewhere in the middle. However, this is factually true, and it is a relevant…

... Or maybe it is not factually true?

You can't beat Hyrum's law by simply "forcing more people to use official API", with enough code people still depends on every implementation details in your code.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#86

Post by asiando »

damnyou wrote: post #34

Why would any developer who doesn't use a Mac even consider bringing their extensions to Safari? The vast majority of developers use Windows or Linux: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-de...

People downvoted you as if this wasn’t a sensible comment.

It’s not just “why would” a developer do it; It’s how can they do it without a Mac? They can’t.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#87

Post by JimDabell »

gumby wrote: post #73

Seems like it ought to be scriptable to wrap a little boilerplate around the custom js and call xcodebuild on it. Unfortunately "ought to be" != "easy". But if someone could do this it would be a service to extension developers and Safari users alike.

It practically already exists. Xcode can import an existing WebExtension and generate an Xcode project for it. Assuming you are happy with the default behaviour of the companion app (which basically just gives you info on the extension, whether it is enabled in Safari, and how to enable it if not), you can just hit build and submit it to Apple.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#88

Post by apple_innocent »

chmod775 wrote: post #71

As someone who has (re-)implemented and shipped quite a few native applications across ecosystems (Apple, Android, Windows, Linux) all I can say about this is: Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague . I will do it if I'm paid for it - I generally charge twice my hourly rate for anything Apple - but I cert…

Would the hobbyist projects whose development is effectively inhibited by Xcode and the Apple Developer Program, i.e., the hoops Apple makes programmers jump through, be more interesting than the apps people pay developers to create.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#89

Post by gnicholas »

asiando wrote: post #82
gnicholas wrote: post #66

My startup has two Chrome extensions, and we also have an Apple developer account. But even still, we haven't prioritized releasing an extension for Safari. We'll probably do it eventually, but over the last 6 years we just haven't received that many requests for Safari (desktop) support. It literally might be 3 requests per year. I think this is because people who use extensions just don't use Safari, and therefore…

Regular web extension support downloaded from the Chrome web store? I’m interested

Not exactly — it's a combination of regex on the URL and then JS injection and the like.

They're in beta now and launching soon: http://insightbrowser.com

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#90

Post by dwighttk »

superkuh wrote: post #13
heavymark wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% Untrue. I use many extensions in Safari just like I use to in Chrome, my needs for customization are the same regardless the browser I use, but like many choose Safari for his performance, privacy ui, among other benefits. Find it very frustrating that many of the big products don't have Safari extensions. Often when I email there tech support they give a reason why, and then I try to explain there are referring…

I get why it may seem that way when we're on HN and there's selection bias going on. But if you look at all major browser the Safari users are going to be the lowest % extension use. That's what Apple is. An ecosystem where users don't configure anything. You can go out of your way and do it but that type of user is not who they design for. Just look at, https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-neutered-ad-blockers-in-...…

I remember when people said ad blockers we’re going to be broken. And I didn’t notice because the ad blocker I was using before worked fine and continues to work fine after whatever they did. (1Blocker)
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