Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions? • Hacker News Board

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#71

Post by chmod775 » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

As someone who has (re-)implemented and shipped quite a few native applications across ecosystems (Apple, Android, Windows, Linux) all I can say about this is:

Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague.

I will do it if I'm paid for it - I generally charge twice my hourly rate for anything Apple - but I certainly won't go through the trouble of trying to get any of my hobbyist projects into Apple's walled garden. I like to do enjoyable things in my free time, and the timesink that is Apple's proprietary clusterfuck is anything but fun.

Apple's desktop market share being what it is, I cannot comprehend how they're generally getting away with this.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#72

Post by coldtea » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

Well, it's not like Extensions are that much useful. Most people (the huge majority) don't use any (or even know how to install them, in Chrome or elsewhere).

Case in point: "Beyond20, an excellent extension that connects the D&D Beyond character sheet to virtual tabletop services like Roll20"

Wonder how Safari users will make it without this usability booster!

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#73

Post by gumby » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

Seems like it ought to be scriptable to wrap a little boilerplate around the custom js and call xcodebuild on it.

Unfortunately "ought to be" != "easy". But if someone could do this it would be a service to extension developers and Safari users alike.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#74

Post by coldtea » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:32 AM UTC

chmod775 wrote: post #71

As someone who has (re-)implemented and shipped quite a few native applications across ecosystems (Apple, Android, Windows, Linux) all I can say about this is: Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague . I will do it if I'm paid for it - I generally charge twice my hourly rate for anything Apple - but I cert…

>Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague.

That's because you're a developer that works in different platforms ("Apple, Android, Windows, Linux"). So you probably spend most of the time working in some other platform, and doing macOS work for you is just an annoyance, having to context switch to another process, etc.

Apple tho wants macOS developers (and users prefer apps from people dedicated to macOS). That's because such vendors (e.g. Panic, BareBones, Omni, and so on) won't do lowest common denominator apps, they keep up with the platform, they understand it, they hook in to new platform-only capabilities, etc.).

>Apple's desktop market share being what it is, I cannot comprehend how they're generally getting away with this.

Apple's market share is what it is, in part because they enforce things like this. This means they can add new OS/hardware features and devs will add support for them fast (instead on relying to 1000s of half-ported apps, with shared functionality on Windows and Mac, and horrible cross-platformy UIs).

That's also why (forcing more people to use XCode, and thus the official APIs, BitCode, and so on), they can introduce a whole new architecture like AS, and have macOS apps support it from day one, or old x86 apps running smoothly translated.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#75

Post by ballenf » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

mfDjB wrote: post #45

As an extension developer, I am keen to put my extension on Safari however what is preventing me at this moment is dealing with Dun & Bradstreet to get a DUNS number. A DUNS number is required to sign up to the Apple Developer Program as a corporation. So far I have been pushed to 3 different departments by D&B who keep just hand-balling me to the next department without solving my issue, and this is taking on the or…

The key to D&B is understanding that they have two very separate businesses. Think of it like the TurboTax free filing division and the paid division.

D&B make buckets of money off of paid services which are like credit counseling and business reputation rackets. If you want to borrow money as a business you’ll probably have to pay their tax along the way.

Their quasi government mandated monopoly is handing out the number you need. God forbid you try to get one from the former however. Also don’t try to update your registration through the paid side either. They’ll try to charge you even though they can’t get it done any faster than you can yourself through the correct link.

The key to getting one quickly is making sure your corporate registration is updated with your state. And the officer getting the Apple ID is listed with the state as an officer.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#76

Post by smoldesu » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #74

chmod775 wrote: post #71

As someone who has (re-)implemented and shipped quite a few native applications across ecosystems (Apple, Android, Windows, Linux) all I can say about this is: Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague . I will do it if I'm paid for it - I generally charge twice my hourly rate for anything Apple - but I cert…

> Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague. That's because you're a developer that works in different platforms ("Apple, Android, Windows, Linux"). So you probably spend most of the time working in some other platform, and doing macOS work for you is just an annoyance, having to context switch to another pr…

Apple cannot justify their transgressions against the modern development workforce as "a matter of platforms". The future cannot be segregated by platforms - that's part of the goal of a private and secure web. We need to work together to create secure infrastructure that everyone can trust, not huddle away and say that "Apple isn't looking for people like you". I understand that you're probably pretty impartial on the topic, but even you can acknowledge that their treatment of developers is unhealthy.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#77

Post by paulryanrogers » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:44 AM UTC

seanwilson wrote: post #49

paulryanrogers wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I push my extension to Firefox, Chrome, and Edge. Updates for me take less than five minutes to upload and appear within an hour or so. Maybe it's because I don't have many users, or don't use any minification, or something else? I'd like to publish for Safari but it's a much higher bar. Similar to the old Edge extensions which required Microsoft Store hoop jumping.

> I push my extension to Firefox, Chrome, and Edge. Do you automated this or are there manual steps? > Updates for me take less than five minutes to upload and appear within an hour or so. https://developer.chrome.com/docs/webstore/faq/#faq-listing-... "Review times vary; some reviews complete in a few hours, others take many days, and in some cases a review can take several weeks. ... If your item's status says "pen…

> Do you automated this or are there manual steps?

Manual for the time being.

> Maybe your extension isn't impacted here? There's no guarantee the next update won't get trapped in the review queue either,...

Mine does need all URLs, though it is possible the next review could take days or weeks. Yet it's all still so much simpler a process than Safari.

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#78

Post by ylyn » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:46 AM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #76

coldtea wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague. That's because you're a developer that works in different platforms ("Apple, Android, Windows, Linux"). So you probably spend most of the time working in some other platform, and doing macOS work for you is just an annoyance, having to context switch to another pr…

Apple cannot justify their transgressions against the modern development workforce as "a matter of platforms". The future cannot be segregated by platforms - that's part of the goal of a private and secure web. We need to work together to create secure infrastructure that everyone can trust, not huddle away and say that "Apple isn't looking for people like you". I understand that you're probably pretty impartial on t…

You mean GP is partial, right?

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#79

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #13

heavymark wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% Untrue. I use many extensions in Safari just like I use to in Chrome, my needs for customization are the same regardless the browser I use, but like many choose Safari for his performance, privacy ui, among other benefits. Find it very frustrating that many of the big products don't have Safari extensions. Often when I email there tech support they give a reason why, and then I try to explain there are referring…

I get why it may seem that way when we're on HN and there's selection bias going on. But if you look at all major browser the Safari users are going to be the lowest % extension use. That's what Apple is. An ecosystem where users don't configure anything. You can go out of your way and do it but that type of user is not who they design for. Just look at, https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-neutered-ad-blockers-in-...…

[deleted]

Re: Safari 14 added WebExtensions support, so where are the extensions?

#80

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Jan 18, 2021, 3:54 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #74

chmod775 wrote: post #71

As someone who has (re-)implemented and shipped quite a few native applications across ecosystems (Apple, Android, Windows, Linux) all I can say about this is: Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague . I will do it if I'm paid for it - I generally charge twice my hourly rate for anything Apple - but I cert…

> Xcode development, the Apple Developer Program, and the whole experience of trying to ship your application on the Apple ecosystem is the fucking plague. That's because you're a developer that works in different platforms ("Apple, Android, Windows, Linux"). So you probably spend most of the time working in some other platform, and doing macOS work for you is just an annoyance, having to context switch to another pr…

    That's also why (forcing more people to use XCode
    and thus the official APIs, BitCode, and so on), 
    they can introduce a whole new architecture like AS
    and have macOS apps support it from day one, or old 
    x86 apps running smoothly translated.

It's a failure of HN culture that posts like this get downvoted. You can like it, loathe it, or feel somewhere in the middle. However, this is factually true, and it is a relevant and legitimate response to issues raised by the parent poster.