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Update on an Employee Matter

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Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#231

Post by tomp »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #229
tomp wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I'd much rather not see words "Nazi" and "terrorist" used for protesters (or even rioters) whose intentions had nothing to do with extermination, torture, or serious attempts of coup or terrorism (cf. actual terrorist attacks by actual terrorists in Europe).

These were quite literal neo-Nazis engaged in a literal terrorist attack. I really don’t understand the hand wringing over describing it accurately.

As a Londoner and European, I’d love to exchange our terrorists (that literally blow up kids, shoot them point blank, and decapitate and drive over people) for US “domestic terrorists” that ... take selfies (yeah a few people died unfortunately, not too surprising for a riot with a massive security failure, but far from a literal terrorist attack).

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#233

Post by jakelazaroff »

tomp wrote: post #231
jakelazaroff wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were quite literal neo-Nazis engaged in a literal terrorist attack. I really don’t understand the hand wringing over describing it accurately.

As a Londoner and European, I’d love to exchange our terrorists (that literally blow up kids, shoot them point blank, and decapitate and drive over people) for US “domestic terrorists” that ... take selfies (yeah a few people died unfortunately, not too surprising for a riot with a massive security failure, but far from a literal terrorist attack).

What’s the minimum body count required for it to be a terrorist attack?

Yes, it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. But don’t kid yourself into thinking that their goal was just to take selfies in the Senate chambers. The only reason we didn’t see much more violence is that congresspeople were evacuated in time.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#234

Post by 458aperta »

akrulino wrote: post #165
HarryHirsch wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Github sure sounds like a lovely company to work for, and tone is set at the top.

Hacker News in 2021: The above comment is grey.

Clearly they have priorities straight or this is a case of "the fish rots from the head".

It's okay to post anti-semetic memes but not calling out actual Nazis that were present?

Then its okay to downvote and censor all the comments on HN that calls out the absurdity of it all?

Just what is happening to HN? What is going on with the US? We are not breaking any rules yet we are all getting flagged and downvoted for expressing shock.

What happened to free speech or does HN folks no longer believe in America?

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#235

Post by [deleted] »

ryandrake wrote: post #230
tomp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating them the same as Hitler is literally “crying wolf”. These people are closer to internet trolls then they are to 1930s Nazis.

If Literal Hitler were in the crowd I guarantee there would be people downplaying it like this.

[deleted]

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#236

Post by julianmarq »

yongjik wrote: post #153

In HN, I've been seeing way more comments supporting the "freedom of speech" for those who stormed the Capitol, compared to other sites. (That might tell more about what sites I visit, but whatever.) So far I chalked it up to the strong libertarian bent of an average HN user - some people really believe in absolute freedom of speech. While I don't necessarily agree, I can live with that. ...And then I see multiple co…

> In HN, I've been seeing way more comments supporting the "freedom of speech" for those who stormed the Capitol

In HN, I've seen people saying that the concept of free speech is outdated and that societies that support it are doomed to failure.

> While I don't necessarily agree [on the importance of freedom of speech]

This doesn't quite reach as far as the example I gave, but it is representative of what at the very least half of of comments in HN are like, when the subject is free speech. I always find it a little ironic.

> That might tell more about what sites I visit, but whatever

Given the difference of experiences, it might just be biases, including selection bias. And yes, I include myself in that statement, though I try to take note of comments beside mine defending freedom of speech, if nothing else just so I don't lose hope.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#237

Post by 458aperta »

aaomidi wrote: post #188
jedberg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly reasonable to believe in freedom of speech in the public forum but a set of rules and decorum at the workplace. The two should be separate. When people really complain is when someone faces consequences for their public speech at their workplace. But we're still humans and we still care about who we associate with.

A Jewish person should face consequences for being rightfully terrified of what's happening and talking about it with their colleagues? Yeah no.

As per theverge article, they did nothing when anti-semitic memes and jokes were being posted by their employees.

So what can we take away from this? Github's "professional conduct at workplace" and "diversity" is complete farce.

I'm ready to move to bitbucket after this incident. When you promote people who share hatred, this means the company at the top probably also shares the same vision.

This is a PR disaster for github and there is NO WAY I can support github going forward.

Once again, somebody has flagged every single criticisms of Github's original decision. Is this Github doing damage control? I'm going to move our team completely off github now.

https://ibb.co/fdKKXdH

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#238

Post by 458aperta »

yongjik wrote: post #153

In HN, I've been seeing way more comments supporting the "freedom of speech" for those who stormed the Capitol, compared to other sites. (That might tell more about what sites I visit, but whatever.) So far I chalked it up to the strong libertarian bent of an average HN user - some people really believe in absolute freedom of speech. While I don't necessarily agree, I can live with that. ...And then I see multiple co…

somebody is flagging all the comments that is criticizing github's original decision to side with those who were offended by someone worrying about Nazis who were present at the rallies.

yet the bottom line is that Github was okay with its workers posting anti-semitic memes and there is a significant chunk of people on HN that backs this.

I am beyond disappointed in both Github and HN.

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#239

Post by s1artibartfast »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #233
tomp wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Londoner and European, I’d love to exchange our terrorists (that literally blow up kids, shoot them point blank, and decapitate and drive over people) for US “domestic terrorists” that ... take selfies (yeah a few people died unfortunately, not too surprising for a riot with a massive security failure, but far from a literal terrorist attack).

What’s the minimum body count required for it to be a terrorist attack? Yes, it wasn’t nearly as bad as it could have been. But don’t kid yourself into thinking that their goal was just to take selfies in the Senate chambers. The only reason we didn’t see much more violence is that congresspeople were evacuated in time.

Half the problem is people throwing around words like them and their without qualification. There were thousands of people with different views. Some were neonazis and some were terrorist. We all need to be more careful with our generalizations

Re: Update on an Employee Matter

#240

Post by baskire »

raverbashing wrote: post #58
bmiller2 wrote: post #13

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

> The employee was chastised for using divisive language, according to news first reported by Business Insider. For calling, erm, Nazis Nazis? (and yes, given the photos of the event that monicker can be applied to some people present there) No wonder the head of HR quit, this is such top level corporate PR BS that it's hard to justify.

If employee lives in California they could also sue Github’s HR and likely win

“”” California Labor Code section 1102 provides "[n]o employer shall coerce or influence or attempt to coerce or influence his employees through or by means of threat of discharge or loss of employment... “””

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