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E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

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Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#101

Post by hobofan »

RobertoG wrote: post #92
est31 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to innovate when the bigger competitor can just copy you without paying you anything? This current situation is unfortunate, but I think it's an imperfection of the market. If the patent owning company had been a bit less greedy, they could have made far more money with it.

How E ink innovations come to happen? I think it was developed by MIT and not by E INK, is that right?

It was developed _by_ professors and students _at_ MIT, who then went on to found the E Ink Corporation (and presumably found an arrangement regarding the IP with MIT). This is the backstory of basically every startup founded out of a university lab.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#102

Post by willvarfar »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #83
willvarfar wrote: post #80

So I’ll ask here as there may be some lurkers who can help me in my quest: I am trying to find a basic e-reader. I have a simple want: I want a built in browser that will let me download ePub and pdf etc from the browser. I’m not interested in bundled bookstores. I’m not keen on having to load books onto it via a pc app nor emailing them nor having an Amazon account neither. I just want to be able to browse and downl…

I use a Kobo Clara HD. It has a Kobo store where you can buy books, or you can use the “experimental web browser”, point it to libgen or your libraries website, and download whatever book you want. More often than not though I just hook it up to my Linux laptop and transfer books via usb.

Aha, this brand is easy to get ahold of where I am!

Googling suggests the “beta” browser has been beta forever; does the software never update?

And does the beta browser support multiple tabs and copy+pasting urls? (FanFiction doesn’t do ePub, but there are several helper websites that provide it if you can copy paste the FanFiction URLs)

Thanks awfully for helping me with my research!

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#103

Post by oezi »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #93
oezi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why patent duration should be tied to product lifecycle length. Pharma where you need 10 years to pull off clinical trials could keep 23 years, but consumer hardware where new generation of devices launch within 2 years should be limited to 10 years. Software should likely be limited to 5 years.

Alternatively, make the cost to renew a patent each year increase exponentially, with the base proportional to the worth of the individual/company filing the patent at the time of filing. That ties the duration of a patent directly to how much value it provides to the company over time, which is the rationale for having patents in the first place. A company could only afford to hold onto a patent for as long as it ca…

Getting exponential curves right is very tricky though (just look at Covid). I believe using such escalating fees would just favor the big companies who can stay ahead of the curve.

Another idea I think worth exploring is mandatory licensing at fixed rates which decline over years and/or are tied to revenue the patent holder generates with the patent. The goal really should be to increase utility of the patent for the public.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#104

Post by projectileboy »

oezi wrote: post #78
listerOfSmeg wrote: post #6

E-ink is one of those techs that only advanced when large batches of patents expire. E-ink the company has tied up the tech stack in so many patents, NDA's, and exorbitant prices that no one wants to touch it. E-ink the technology wont go any where for 10-15 years when that next big batch of patents expire. Its just like 3D displays and VR there will be a massive consumer push new batches of patents will be filed pro…

And this is why patent duration should be tied to product lifecycle length. Pharma where you need 10 years to pull off clinical trials could keep 23 years, but consumer hardware where new generation of devices launch within 2 years should be limited to 10 years. Software should likely be limited to 5 years.

I’m so dumb - this never occurred to me, and I’ve never heard anyone express it this way. This makes so much sense. Thanks.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#105

Post by karmasimida »

Unless they can solve the refreshing rate, I won't be too thrilled about this.

In fact there are so much more content nowadays are developed/created beyond text format isn't good news for E-Ink. They are risking solving a problem that people would soon forget why it worthy solving in the first place.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#106

Post by hyperpallium2 »

dsr_ wrote: post #36
dragosmocrii wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the memory pricing?

Here's an article from 2011 doing Moore's Law extrapolation of RAM and disk prices: https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future-memo... RAM, 2011: "A single 8GB stick of RAM is about $80 right now. In 2021, you’d be able to buy a single stick of RAM that contains 64GB for the same price." Disks, 2011: "The price of a 1-terabyte hard drive is $80 now... In 2013, a 2TB drive will be $80. In 2015, a 4TB driv…

lcd screens didn't fall in price because of an international criminal price-fixing conspiracy. https://wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT-LCD_(Flat_Panel)_Antitrust_Li...

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#107

Post by tanto »

oezi wrote: post #78
listerOfSmeg wrote: post #6

E-ink is one of those techs that only advanced when large batches of patents expire. E-ink the company has tied up the tech stack in so many patents, NDA's, and exorbitant prices that no one wants to touch it. E-ink the technology wont go any where for 10-15 years when that next big batch of patents expire. Its just like 3D displays and VR there will be a massive consumer push new batches of patents will be filed pro…

And this is why patent duration should be tied to product lifecycle length. Pharma where you need 10 years to pull off clinical trials could keep 23 years, but consumer hardware where new generation of devices launch within 2 years should be limited to 10 years. Software should likely be limited to 5 years.

This would most probably benefit big cooperations more than smaller ones as they can use money to speed up RnD and time to market. I can think of 1000 ways to make the patent system more fair but also 1001 to game each approach. It's a tough but to crack.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#108

Post by b0rsuk »

unethical_ban wrote: post #48
IgorPartola wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because the only thing better than a medium sized company that won’t license its patents is a megacorp that won’t license its patents /s No the solution is to incentivize patent licensing and in the case of software make it simply not patentable. The corporate overlords won’t save us from themselves. If they had their way patents would simply never expire.

Your first sentence, but unironically. Big corp probably isn't as devoted to milking one IP asset to the detriment of its adoption. And they may have the resources to make more products in-house that utilize the tech. I agree that the patent system needs modification in the long run, though.

Counterpoint: game publishers are more than happy to sit on an IP without releasing a game for years. For example Dune (the board game). Dungeon Keeper. Hexen 3 (Hecatomb). Rune 2. Prey 2.

Duke Nukem Forever... actually happened.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#109

Post by baybal2 »

throwaway189262 wrote: post #76
D13Fd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree about patents. This is the patent system working as designed. It incentivized a company to invent a new thing, and gave them a monopoly for a reasonable amount of time (20 years). When it ends, others can operate in the space. I agree about copyright, though. Copyright has been expanded to cover software and even APIs. Copyright is a giant drag on innovation. A single company can tie up a space fo…

Facebook is only 16 years old. Think about that. 20 years ago everyone was using 56k modems and JS barely existed. 20 years is an absurdly long time in tech

22 years ago, I had a 8mbps DSL connection, and a significant part of urban Japan already had 100mbps.

On other hand, America had more fibre than any other nation, but its hyperregulated telecom industry only managed to cross 10mbps averages 10-8 years ago.

Re: E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper

#110

Post by TeMPOraL »

vikramkr wrote: post #73
syshum wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly it is not, e-Ink, 3d printing, VR, and hosts of other technology has been held back not advanced because of patents Now that is not to say I would advocate for complete removal of the patent systems but I do think Compulsory FRAND style licensing should be a requirement of obtaining a patent Your distinction between Copyright and Patent is also strang as the suffer from the same flaw so it seems your only jus…

Held back might be the tradeoff we have to pay for letting them exist in the first place. Developing new technologies is not cheap or trivial- especially hardware innovations. I'd rather have a delayed 20 year start to fast e ink innovation than have e ink never get the r&d funding needed to get past the valley of death and make it to market in the first place.

These companies didn't make money on patent licenses, they made money on selling the stuff. More money than they should, because they used patents to limit competition.

Patents can be useful as an incentive, but their length need to correspond with the pace of progress in a given field. Otherwise, they end up slowing down everyone.

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