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The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

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Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#111

Post by adrian_b »

summm wrote: post #103

Indium is very rare. Used for transparent conductors on displays etc. Is it really worth it to use it in a slightly better blue? In other words: does its current price really reflect all the future use we could get from Indium?

Indium is comparable in abundance with gold, so it is indeed very rare.

Indium is completely irreplaceable in LED's, especially in the LED's used for lighting, and also in other important semiconductor devices, e.g. in the GaN transistors that are now used in the latest miniaturized power bricks.

Currently the largest quantity of indium is used for the transparent conductors required in all displays, from smartphones to TV's and monitors. There are alternatives for this use, but all have various disadvantages, e.g. a lower lifetime or a lower efficiency.

I agree that wasting indium, which is probably the element with the lowest known resources compared to the known future needs for it, to make something like pigments, where there are a lot of mostly equivalent alternatives, is a serious mistake.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#112

Post by adrian_b »

BossingAround wrote: post #102
tekkk wrote: post #79

These people really didnt think about how people are going to pronounce their pigment? YInMn - what a monster of a name. In the olden days at least people gave colors great names that were easy to prounounce and provided them personality. Ultramarine, prussian blue.. Even vantablack has a nice rhythm. It's nice as techinical name, I guess, but I'd hope they have some better brand name they are going by.

It seems to me like it'd have a Chinese-like pronunciation, that is Yin Min. Tangentially, as a non-native speaker, "ultramarine" has a fairly similar amount of information encoded in the name as "Yinmn"--pretty much zero. So, the two names ("ultramarine" vs "yinmn") are pretty much equivalent to eme, personally. Goes to show that naming things "properly" is difficult (I suspect it's impossible actually).

Originally, "ultramarine" meant something like "imported merchandise", i.e. something brought from the other side (ultra-) of the sea (-marine).

It provided the information that this is a foreign pigment that must be better than the lower-quality pigments produced locally (e.g. azurite).

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#113

Post by chrisbennet »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #28
tryptophan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chemical reactions (such as forming it into a pigment) greatly change the biological effects substances have. For example, you probably shouldn't drink OH- or H2O2, even though it is made of the same atoms as water. Just because the pure elemental form is toxic doesn't make compounds with it toxic as well.

I don't think that is a very good example. A better example would be is there a safe compound with lead or arsenic or mercury (known toxic elements) you would want to take into your body?

Yes, tooth fillings.

"Dental amalgam is a mixture of metals, consisting of liquid (elemental) mercury and a powdered alloy composed of silver, tin, and copper. Approximately half (50%) of dental amalgam is elemental mercury by weight. The chemical properties of elemental mercury allow it to react with and bind together the silver/copper/tin alloy particles to form an amalgam."

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/dental-devices/dental-am....

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#114

Post by mathgeek »

OJFord wrote: post #108
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is a very good example. A better example would be is there a safe compound with lead or arsenic or mercury (known toxic elements) you would want to take into your body?

Why does it need to be safe to 'take into your body'? I'm not going to drink lead paint or the turpentine used to clean brushes either.

Likely for the same reason we rarely use lead paint anymore, or why micro plastics are a concern in bath products. Just for a couple of examples of products you don’t consume ending up in animal bodies.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#115

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

spoonjim wrote: post #54
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in pride of my mercury-compound amalgam. You can choose to live in fear. "Numerous other organizations have also publicly declared the safety and effectiveness of amalgam. These include the Mayo clinic,[21] the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA),[22] Health Canada,[23] Alzheimer's Association,[24] American Academy of Pediatrics,[25] Autism Society of America,[26] U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,[27]…

I'm not deep in a hole "living in fear," I just got the resin and don't have to think about it anymore.

The resin fillings don’t last nearly as long. You’ll need a replacement down the road. I’m going on 40 years or so with my mercury filling.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#116

Post by esperent »

chrisbennet wrote: post #113
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is a very good example. A better example would be is there a safe compound with lead or arsenic or mercury (known toxic elements) you would want to take into your body?

Yes, tooth fillings. "Dental amalgam is a mixture of metals, consisting of liquid (elemental) mercury and a powdered alloy composed of silver, tin, and copper. Approximately half (50%) of dental amalgam is elemental mercury by weight. The chemical properties of elemental mercury allow it to react with and bind together the silver/copper/tin alloy particles to form an amalgam." https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/dent…

Amalgam fillings do offgas tiny amounts of mercury. Of course, this is a controversial topic and there's a lot of misinformation around, so do your own research. Personally, I came to the conclusion that the one amalgam filling I have is ok but too many would cause potentially toxic buildup over a lifetime so I'll never get another.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#117

Post by annoyingnoob »

adrian_b wrote: post #111
summm wrote: post #103

Indium is very rare. Used for transparent conductors on displays etc. Is it really worth it to use it in a slightly better blue? In other words: does its current price really reflect all the future use we could get from Indium?

Indium is comparable in abundance with gold, so it is indeed very rare. Indium is completely irreplaceable in LED's, especially in the LED's used for lighting, and also in other important semiconductor devices, e.g. in the GaN transistors that are now used in the latest miniaturized power bricks. Currently the largest quantity of indium is used for the transparent conductors required in all displays, from smartphones…

I would say, do not underestimate the value of art. The article described an artist that made is own paint from the pigment. He painted a depiction of an ancient bird, its absolutely beautiful. This use was not a waste of resources and will in fact last much much longer than any screen made in 2021.

Its arguable that using precious resources for products that last less than 20 years, in many cases less than 5 years, is a true waste.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#118

Post by [deleted] »

idiocrat wrote: post #68
throwaway5752 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not good, but consider Cadmium Red, Chromium Green, Lead White, and Vermillion (Mercury), among others.

Yes, just another few elements to leak into environment, rivers, oceans. It does not matter if the chemical compound is inert or not, the elements will be well incorporated into a new vector of nature.

[deleted]

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#119

Post by adrian_b »

ampdepolymerase wrote: post #42
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is a very good example. A better example would be is there a safe compound with lead or arsenic or mercury (known toxic elements) you would want to take into your body?

Organic chemistry should probably be made mandatory as part of high school science education like physics. Parent looks like Exhibit A for anti-thiomersal hysteria.

I believe that the anti-thiomersal hysteria was quite justified.

Even if thiomersal is more effective at killing bacteria than at killing humans, there are no doubts that it is also toxic for humans and for any other animals.

While the thiomersal dose injected together with a vaccine is small enough so that in most cases it will not cause damages before being eliminated from the body, the risks are not negligible.

To willingly inject yourself with poison, even in a quantity that hopefully will not hurt you, seems rather stupid.

Better alternative bactericides must be found for vaccine preservation.

Re: The first blue pigment discovered in 200 years is now commercially available

#120

Post by hobofan »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #97
hobofan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it's 1 year of the final 2 year Chemistry elective, where most people instead choose Biology or Physics (and I think if you are on a language focused path you might not even have to do one of them).

It depends on the state level, but I believe in most (if not all?) you need to take at least one year of anorganic and one year of organic chemistry

Just looked it up and you are right, all of 10th grade is already focused on organic chemistry[0] (in Bavaria) for those with a STEM profile, while other profiles also have organic chemistry that year, but a bit less of it.

[0]: http://www.isb-gym8-lehrplan.de/contentserv/3.1.neu/g8.de/id...

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