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‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

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Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#81

Post by nulbyte »

jeofken wrote: post #69
dannyw wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow. The logo literally has six stars, which is the subject of what we are discussing here.

They’ve identified the same stars, but do the Han or Korean or Japanese have a story about 7 sisters?

Subaru itself cited[1] Kojiki literature from the 8th century when talking about the origin of its name.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20100411083646/http://www.subaru...

Unfortunately, trying to find anything more online, such as what exactly the Kojiki says about them, doesn't seem to yield much.

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#82

Post by nabla9 »

idlewords wrote: post #75
dwighttk wrote: post #72

Sure Pleione and Atlas used to be a little farther apart, but Maia and Taygeta are were also closer together according to their chart. Why could they tell the latter apart when we can’t tell the former?

I am sorry to say you might have to go read the linked paper, where this is discussed. The upshot is, visually distinguishing two stars is a function of both their proximity and relative brightness. https://www.dropbox.com/s/np0n4v72bdl37gr/sevensisters.pdf?d...

I am sorry to say that after reading the paper, I found no discussion of this matter.

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#83

Post by jcims »

fireattack wrote: post #33
reducesuffering wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not directly. Translation would be "to govern" or "gather together", but Subaru is one of the constellation's names in Japan, like it would also be called Pleiades in the West, deriving from "plein", meaning "to sail."[0] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20100411083646/http://www.subaru...

I think his point is while Subaru does mean Pleiades in Japanese (actually came from Chinese), it (the name) has nothing to do with "seven sisters".

>nothing to do with "seven sisters"

I don’t see anyone claiming that Subaru means seven sisters. It’s just another name for the same constellation.

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#84

Post by EdwardDiego »

tikwidd wrote: post #53
sundarurfriend wrote: post #44

This reminded me of a theory came up with as a teenager, that the Vaanaraas of Ramayana (a group to which the famous "monkey god" Hanuman belongs) may actually be an early hominid that had ape-like features, that lived in parallel with humans in different territory. They were intelligent enough to help the human princes in their quest, which got them a place in their story - a story which went on to become an oral tr…

This might not be quite as outlandish as it sounds, because we now have plenty of evidence that early humans were living alongside and interacting with other archaic homo species. I have a pet (similarly highly speculative) theory that the Nephilim[1] of the Bible might be a earlier oral history of Neanderthals. But I'll just leave it at that, speculation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

Huh, I have that same pet theory.

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#85

Post by Anthony-G »

heikkilevanto wrote: post #42

Seven is a common story-telling number. Seven days in a week, sailing the seven seas, the seven wonders of the world, the seven continents, seven deadly sins, etc.

The old tropes are the best and continue to reincarnate in new forms, e.g, Hary Potter: Why 7

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/106582/harry-potte...

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#86

Post by nobody9999 »

Garlef wrote: post #11
sibeliuss wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jung, amongst others, believed that myths are archetypal constructs that underpin the architecture of the mind, and are shared by all, which explains much about the uncanny cultural similarities across time and space.

I don't think we need this kind of hocus pocus to explain this. Frist candidate for an explanation: * Stories get passed on and some are surprisingly stable. Second candidate for an explanation: * The underpinnings of the architecture of the mind cause the same stories to (re?)surface everywhere. Let's use occams razor. (I don't claim this argument disproves the "theory" of archetypes. But we should not jump to concl…

>* Stories get passed on and some are surprisingly stable.

That's reasonable. While certainly far from proven, the Black Sea Deluge Hypothesis[0] posits the possibility that the "Great Flood" story, which is part of many ancient traditions (and long predates Abrahamic[1] religions) may be from an oral tradition recounting a flood occurring at the end of the last glaciation in Eastern Europe and Western Asia.

While that story certainly isn't anywhere near 100,000 years old, if true, it does add credence to the stability of oral traditions over long periods of time.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

Edit: Clarified hypothesized location of the Black Sea Deluge.

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#87

Post by scatters »

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #38

fascinating - but I can't make out those three stars in a row (the guys sitting in the boat) from the constellation depicted below. Neither for 2020 nor 100'000 BCE. Also not from Stellarium. Weird.

Orion's Belt? It's one of the most recognizable constellations (or parts thereof).

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#88

Post by Tistron »

Garlef wrote: post #11
sibeliuss wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jung, amongst others, believed that myths are archetypal constructs that underpin the architecture of the mind, and are shared by all, which explains much about the uncanny cultural similarities across time and space.

I don't think we need this kind of hocus pocus to explain this. Frist candidate for an explanation: * Stories get passed on and some are surprisingly stable. Second candidate for an explanation: * The underpinnings of the architecture of the mind cause the same stories to (re?)surface everywhere. Let's use occams razor. (I don't claim this argument disproves the "theory" of archetypes. But we should not jump to concl…

What is the difference between your second point and "archetypes"?

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#89

Post by nabla9 »

dwighttk wrote: post #72

Sure Pleione and Atlas used to be a little farther apart, but Maia and Taygeta are were also closer together according to their chart. Why could they tell the latter apart when we can’t tell the former?

The distances are very similar but Pleione is much dimmer than either Maia or Taygeta.

Apparent magnitudes:

   Pleione 4.77 - 5.50

   Taygeta 4.30 

   Maia    3.87
(Apparent magnitude is a measure of the brightness of a star or other astronomical object observed from Earth, it's inverse logarithmic so smaller number is brighter)

Re: ‘Seven Sisters’ Myths May Reach Back 100k Years

#90

Post by credit_guy »

sradman wrote: post #58

The Pleiades[1], also known as the Seven Sisters: > It is among the star clusters nearest to Earth... and is the cluster most obvious to the naked eye in the night sky. Only six stars in the cluster are visible to the naked eye yet mythology from several ancient cultures share the idea that one of the seven “sisters" is hidden. The article The world’s oldest story? , originally published in TheConversation [2], state…

Wait a second, this doesn't sound right. According to your wikipedia link, the "Seven Sisters" constellation actually has 9 stars (named after the 7 sisters + parents). They are all visible with the naked eye.
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