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Toxic positivity does more harm than good

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Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#251
post #80

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out. Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd m…

One of the hardest cultural shocks for me to this day is when an American off-handedly asks me "how are you?" at the beginning of a meet and how shocked they seem when I go on to elaborate on how I am feeling -- even it takes me 10-15s they seem to need time to get themselves together because it seems as though I did something outrageous.

Not bashing, let's be clear on that. But this keeps catching me off-guard, every time. Have to work on finally overcoming it. It seems it's an American tradition to say "hi, how are you?" and not just "hello" (namely, it's not a question but a greeting).

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#252
post #80

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out. Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd m…

One of the hardest cultural shocks for me to this day is when an American off-handedly asks me "how are you?" at the beginning of a meet and how shocked they seem when I go on to elaborate on how I am feeling -- even it takes me 10-15s they seem to need time to get themselves together because it seems as though I did something outrageous. Not bashing , let's be clear on that. But this keeps catching me off-guard, eve…

Even as an American, it took me a little too long to realize that wasn't actually a question. I don't know when it started becoming a common greeting, but it's certainly within my adult years.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..." If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that the…

> So "we need to work harder" for behind plan That will just get me angry. If you screw up your commitments that’s on you. Own up to it and talk to your stakeholders. Don’t make me work harder for your mistakes.

Reminds me of the story of the pilot who is being nagged repeatedly to expedite descent by ATC. "Don't you have speed brakes?" says the ATCO with exasperation. "Yes" comes the reply "But those are for my mistakes not yours."

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I hate the celebratory management emails after crunch time. They feel insulting to me. I expect management to help during the project and not celebrating once everything is done. That while not having fixed obvious problems during the project. My partner is the other way. She loves and needs praise. The more the better. Another interesting thing was at the end of one of the last projects. There was a sur…

What did the plaque say? This is amazing.

Redeemable for one free Patagonia shirt.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the hardest cultural shocks for me to this day is when an American off-handedly asks me "how are you?" at the beginning of a meet and how shocked they seem when I go on to elaborate on how I am feeling -- even it takes me 10-15s they seem to need time to get themselves together because it seems as though I did something outrageous. Not bashing , let's be clear on that. But this keeps catching me off-guard, eve…

Even as an American, it took me a little too long to realize that wasn't actually a question. I don't know when it started becoming a common greeting, but it's certainly within my adult years.

Interesting, so it's a relatively new phenomena then.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..." If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that the…

> "this team is killing it" for ahead of plan Why do you think telling your team this is useful? https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/about-fathers/201202...

Why do you imply that Alfie Kohn's ideology is the only useful one?

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as an American, it took me a little too long to realize that wasn't actually a question. I don't know when it started becoming a common greeting, but it's certainly within my adult years.

Interesting, so it's a relatively new phenomena then.

I’d say either I was completely oblivious, or it’s within the past 3 decades. Both are possible.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this works, but only in cases where two things are true: - the team is actually responsible for the date—often, there's massive asymmetric pressure to aim for less time - if it's an actual deadline, the team has the autonomy to adjust scope to hit it In my experience, the worst situations happen when estimates are treated like deadlines . An estimate has to have uncertainty . Without some way to manage uncert…

I don't disagree with you, but as you accurately infer this is a management problem not a team problem. When folks start becoming managers of managers this becomes a bigger focus of their job. I see the whole "agile" movement as a response to this problem. In an effort to mitigate the "error bars" of an estimate a process that iterates over 2 week sprints allows for estimate corrections during development. It isn't o…

This comment ended up as a bit of a rant, on a topic where you have way more experience than I do. Sorry about that! At this point, I'm just using this as a chance to gather my own thoughts on the subject, and I figure I'll post it just in case I get some interesting responses.

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Yeah, that's a great observation on Agile. Smaller but more accurate estimates + cheaper small course corrections.

The dual is that the rest of the organization needs to adapt too—good short-term estimates don't necessarily give you good long-term estimates! So we need loosely coupled, self-sufficient teams that don't depend on accurate estimates from other teams.

I've always hated formal Agile processes (especially Scrum) but I have to work with teams that use them, so I did a bunch of reading about it. The goals and even a lot of the concrete ideas behind it made a lot of sense! It's just that every single concrete instance of the process fell short. I've seen several concrete failure modes in practice:

1. Scrum-flavored micromanagement. People (not necessarily formal managers) use the process to dictate exactly what everyone else needs to work on at practically a daily granularity.

2. Siloing. People are incentivized to only work on "their" tasks—ad hoc collaboration with teammates, trying out speculative design ideas and experiments, figuring out better ways to do something, all get in the way of finishing your tickets, which makes you look flaky in inevitably awkward group meetings.

3. Loss of context. People see that the process helps the team switch priorities, so they switch focus every sprint. Couple this with micromanagement, and you get individuals moved around on wholly unrelated tasks. Too much context switching adds a lot of mental overhead and makes it much harder to build anything with a coherent design and vision (either from a product or from an engineering standpoint).

4. Performance mismeasurement. The whole process is supposed to help the team with estimates. Tracking metrics the process generates and treating them as a way to measure individual performance (whether formally, or just through peer pressure) doesn't work well and is awful for morale.

I haven't seen it, but I bet it is possible to have a Scrum process—or, more likely, something lighter like Kanban—that avoids these problems. But I believe that even idealized Agile processes put too much weight on consistency for its own sake. Making consistent incremental progress helps with estimates and, I suppose, makes the team somewhat easier to manage, but none of that matters nearly as much as, say, quality of work and impact!

Even if nothing from the Agile process makes it into formal performance evaluations, the ceremonies almost seem designed to create peer pressure around it. And that affects day-to-day job satisfaction a lot more than mere performance reviews. Although maybe this is another thing that goes away if you have high-trust teams that are legitimately self-organizing the way Agile is supposed to be... But I'm not sure even that would compensate for the pressure implicitly exerted by the structure of the process.

I bring this up because over-emphasizing consistency imposes a cost on people—individuals get a lot less flexibility in how they work, and end up feeling stress when they're less productive than normal. I tend to think an ideal environment should embrace inconsistency day-to-day and even week-to-week or month-to-month but that requires massive differences in culture. If a team pulls it off, the process starts mattering a lot less!

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#260
post #62

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

This made me think about how different it is to motivate people to exercise. Some people seams to need a full on military boot camp to get exercise done, and some people just totally shuts down when someone tells them what to do. When it comes to management, we don't only need to understand that different people need different types of motivation, but also that something that is essential to motivate some can be dire…

If managing/coaching could be boiled down to "be positive" you could replace the manager with a motivational poster.

Isn't it the managers job to figure out what each individual on the team needs to perform?

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