Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toxic positivity does more harm than good

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 296 posts

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#71

Post by orzig »

Puts wrote: post #62
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

This made me think about how different it is to motivate people to exercise. Some people seams to need a full on military boot camp to get exercise done, and some people just totally shuts down when someone tells them what to do. When it comes to management, we don't only need to understand that different people need different types of motivation, but also that something that is essential to motivate some can be dire…

A million times this. People are diverse, in basically every way. It’s the worst and best part about them.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#72

Post by namdnay »

nathias wrote: post #47
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Its a type of condescention, maybe some people fail to recognize it (thats probably the reason why its used in the first place).

Yes yes yes. That’s what I can’t stand - I don’t mind the hypocrisy, what really grates is the condescension. Who are you to congratulate me? Why would the opinion of some random corporate bullshitter mean anything to me?

And of course the whole political game where people have to send congratulations just to signal that they’re part of leadership

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#73

Post by Frost1x »

trentnix wrote: post #10

Or better stated, dishonesty does more harm than good.

Well, you can be honest in the facts but the perspective around those facts is opinionated. Business culture pushes a constant optimistic outlook for perspective, which to me is ridiculous.

It suffers from not only being optimistic when you shouldn't be, but also being overly optimistic in situations. I pretty much only experience these behaviors in workplaces.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#74

Post by caturopath »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

I was so taken back by this when I joined a huge tech company for the first time. I couldn't tell at first whether people were so miscalibrated that they couldn't tell that the work wasn't impressive or whether it was just a tradition to bullshit all the time. So many of the exaggerated positive statements are about things so minor that they actually come of a bit condescending to me.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#75

Post by Jochim »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

Is it annoying because it seems disingenuous? If so what makes it so?

I used to be much more cynical about unwarranted praise/positivity. My mind has pretty much been changed by my current job, our team lead doesn't communicate how he's feeling to our team at all and this has had negatively affects on not just my morale/happiness but my teammates' as well.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#77

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

There is a massive region encompassing both Instagram filtered perfection as well as gallows humor.

I agree completely that positivity can be forced to toxic levels, but I also see folks drop a plate or get something on their shirt and it’s the worst thing ever and the idea adopting a “whoops, oh well” laughing it off outlook appears to them as forced and toxic positivity. Positivity is great and not letting things get you down is really important if not taken too far.

So what’s the measure for too far versus not far enough? I feel like I see too far and not far enough on equal measure in my peer group.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#78

Post by ChuckMcM »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #8

I've felt a lot of "false" positivity espoused by project managers, especially those in charge of agile ceremonies. Examples: "I'm really {proud,impressed} of all of you for your output this sprint", "You guys are {killing,crushing,owning} it", "You all should be very proud of what you guys did", etc. These aren't given after periods of crunch time, they're literally every week to the point where it feels so contrive…

A lot of insight in the parent comment here. Most importantly this: "...there seems to be two camps of people: those who want constant positive reinforcement and those who it completely has the opposite effect ..."

If you are leading and or managing a team, one of the most important things you need to know are how do people want their feedback. My experience is that it varies from person to person (I suspect that there are many more than two camps :-)) and as such it is unlikely that you can meet that need in group feedback.

Because of that, my choice these days is to split feedback into two fora, the group status meeting and 1:1s. In the group, feedback is modulated by progress against plan. So "we need to work harder" for behind plan, "neutral" for on plan, and "this team is killing it" for ahead of plan. In 1:1s the feedback is based on the expectations that have been set for that team member, do they know what is expected of them? Do they know how it is being measured? And where are they with respect to measurement vs expectation.

1:1 feedback often times (for me) takes on more of a mentor/mentee tone rather than a how are we doing on the schedule tone. Doing that well also requires a certain amount of trust which, as a manager, you have to earn by being honest with your team members.

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#79

Post by ryandrake »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #17
Trasmatta wrote: post #5

This has kind of been a problem at my workplace. Everything from the company's marketing material to its recruiting practices exudes an almost overwhelming amount of positivity. They put a huge emphasis on hiring "the nicest people in the world". Disagreements or arguments at the company are almost non-existent, because everyone tries their hardest to be positive and nice at all times. Every other sentence in Slack e…

It's hilarious during interviews when everyone says "I've never worked at a company like this", "I've never worked with a team like this, truly the best"...I roll my eyes...

It’s often a facade too! I’ve heard privately at one employer the statement “We all outwardly sing Kum-ba-ya and hold each other’s hands but everyone has razor blades in their palms and they hold hands pretty hard...”

Re: Toxic positivity does more harm than good

#80

Post by hnarn »

I vastly prefer honest negativity over dishonest positivity. An example of this is the behavior of service personnel in the US compared to my native country, every time I go there I almost want to tell them to tone down the niceness, but of course there's no point because I realize I'm the odd one out.

Of course I appreciate the effort of being "nice" but when you're not doing it out of genuine care for someone I'd much rather just be treated in a neutral way, like you'd treat any human being you encountered that you knew nothing about. I don't much enjoy being treated as an old friend by someone who wouldn't lend me five bucks, and I don't enjoy being asked polite questions that require elaborate answers when you really don't want to listen to the answer and your eyes glaze over within the first seconds.

Adults have left their insecurities behind them and should understand they're not, at least initially, the friend of every human being and shouldn't have a problem with being treated in a professionally reserved way.

Post reply on HN