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Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

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Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#171

Post by salawat »

jdsalaro wrote: post #38
freedomben wrote: post #20

After years of seeing developments like this, getting worse and worse, it fills me with rage to think about how clearly nobody in power at Google cares. I naively used to think, "they probably don't realize what's happening and will fix it." I always try to give benefit of the doubt, especially having been on the other side so many times and seeing how 9 times out of 10 it's not malice, just incompetence, apathy, or…

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" and all that, but after the events and the almost perfectly orchestrated behavior we've seen in the past and last couple of weeks it's becoming increasingly difficult, at least to me, to not attribute this to malice. Probably deliberate negligence is a better term. They know their systems can make mistakes, of course they do, and yet they bui…

I personally find Hanlon's Razor to be gratuitously misapplied. Corporate strategy is often better described as weaponized willful ignorance. You set up a list of problems that shall not be solved or worked on, and that sets the tone of interaction with the world.

Plus financial incentive creates oh so many opportunities for things to go wrong or be outright miscommunicated it is not even funny.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#172

Post by kyledrake »

jacquesm wrote: post #125
kyledrake wrote: post #116

I run https://neocities.org , and safe browsing has been my nightmare overlord for a long time. No way to manage reports via an API, no way to contact support. I haven't even been able to find a suggestions box, even that would be an upgrade here. Digging to find "the wizard" gets you into some official google "community support" forum where you learn the forum is actually run by a non-employee lawful neutral that wa…

Hi Kyle, I still have the reocities.com domain, would you like to have it? If so I'll be happy to donate it free of charge.

From the Geocities archive? Yeah actually, send me an email let's talk about it.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#173

Post by gomox »

scarface74 wrote: post #162
gomox wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a problem with doing it? I don't see how that would have helped in this case (if anything, it might have made things worse if Google decided to ban the 1st level domain, which they certainly won't do for Cloudfront.net).

It just seems less professional. It’s much like having a .blogger.com or .substack domain. We have been trained for decades not to trust random domains. To the uninitiated, a CloudFront domain is random. I know I’m taken a little aback anytime I go to Amazon’s credit card site - https://amazon.syf.com/login/ it looks like a phishing site.

This Cloudfront URL is not a customer visible URL, it's just referenced for some static assets (images/JS/CSS). The warning is shown instead of the actual SaaS app that is hosted on a "proper" domain, effectively taking the whole thing down.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#174

Post by specialist »

1- Ban self dealing.

Even the appearance of a conflict of interest should be treated as an actual conflict of interest.

Among all the other countermeasures being considering, breaking apart these monopoly's end-to-end integrations should be top priority.

For comparison: I'm a huge Apple fan boy. I'm in a happy monogamist relationship with Apple (h/t NYU Prof Scott Galloway).

There's no question their awesome products are largely due to their keiretsu, monopsony, and other anti-competitive practices. So despite my own joy, I also support breaking up Apple, for the greater good.

The same applies to Google's offerings. Google Chrome cannot be allowed to operate without oversight. Once a product or service becomes an important pillar in a market, it must be held accountable.

2- Fair and impartial courts.

Governments make markets. Google (et al) act as sovereign governments running their private markets. This is unacceptable.

We all must have the right to negotiate contracts, appeal decisions, and other misc tort. To be adjudicated in an open, fair, impartial courts overseen by professional and accountable judges.

In other words, I demand the rule of law.

Again using Apple as my example. As a customer, I benefit hugely from Apple's App Store, where they vet and curate entries. This is awesome.

But Apple must be held accountable for all of their decisions. All participants must have the right to sue for damages. In a fair and impartial court system, independent of Apple's total control over the market.

Similarly, however Google is administrating the Safe Browsing infrastructure, it must be transparent, accountable, auditable.

--

I'm still working on this messaging, phrasing. Criticisms, editing, word smithing much appreciated.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#175

Post by 0x426577617265 »

Blackthorn wrote: post #90
0x426577617265 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author highlights the main issue at the end of the article. This is where pressure needs to be applied. I get it, Google’s process probably protects a lot of end users from malicious sites. Getting a real business added to this blocklist by a bot though is not cool. Perhaps a process to whitelist your own domains if this power can’t be wrangled from Google. > Google literally controls who can access your…

> Getting a real business added to this blocklist by a bot though is not cool. Real businesses can (and often do) host malware too. There was a notable event where php.net was hacked and hosting malware, which Google flagged. The owner of php.net was pretty mad at first and claimed it was a false positive. It wasn't.

Right, I’m not saying they aren’t a risk. I’m suggesting that if a real business is whitelisted that a automated process shouldn’t be allowed to blacklist it without some type of human interaction.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#176

Post by kyledrake »

jdsalaro wrote: post #135
kyledrake wrote: post #116

I run https://neocities.org , and safe browsing has been my nightmare overlord for a long time. No way to manage reports via an API, no way to contact support. I haven't even been able to find a suggestions box, even that would be an upgrade here. Digging to find "the wizard" gets you into some official google "community support" forum where you learn the forum is actually run by a non-employee lawful neutral that wa…

> If things ever got extremely horrible, I used to have a friend that worked at google but she no longer works there. The other person I knew that works at google stopped responding to my tinder messages, so I'm pretty much doomed the next time they do something ultra crazy and I need emergency support. Doing good for the sake of the web, even while dating, that's some next level dedication. :)

Sad nerd seeks third to join 24/7 D/s relationship with my internet daddy

(just lightening the mood a bit, but it's a true story. I wasn't asking for google support)

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#177

Post by astrea »

jdsully wrote: post #166
kyledrake wrote: post #116

I run https://neocities.org , and safe browsing has been my nightmare overlord for a long time. No way to manage reports via an API, no way to contact support. I haven't even been able to find a suggestions box, even that would be an upgrade here. Digging to find "the wizard" gets you into some official google "community support" forum where you learn the forum is actually run by a non-employee lawful neutral that wa…

If Google is falsely claiming your malicious and its harming your business it seems like a pretty clear case of slander/tortuous interference.

I'm sure he could get a lawyer better than Google's.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#178

Post by anovikov »

dannyw wrote: post #66
anovikov wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah i read stories that Yahoo in 1990s called itself a media company and it's product managers "producers" out of fear that once you call yourself a software company - Microsoft will crush you... As for using clouds - there is absolutely no point in the world to use them for anything above staging level, or very very low level launches. People should switch away from cloud as soon as they see even tentative signs of…

You will save so, so much money switching away from clouds too. No, you don't need to use a hundred different AWS/GCP/whatever services, and yes, managing your own infrastructure is a lot easier than you think (and sometimes easier/faster than AWS). The Stack Exchange network, at least around 2018 or so, was hosted on 12 servers they own!

Completely agree. The clouds are still very comfortable for development though, and i use them a lot. But i'd never even think of using cloud in production.

Re: Google Safe Browsing can kill a startup

#180

Post by hedora »

specialist wrote: post #174

1- Ban self dealing. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest should be treated as an actual conflict of interest. Among all the other countermeasures being considering, breaking apart these monopoly's end-to-end integrations should be top priority. For comparison: I'm a huge Apple fan boy. I'm in a happy monogamist relationship with Apple (h/t NYU Prof Scott Galloway). There's no question their awesome products…

Must be held accountable -> must be operated autonomously from the rest of the business
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