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G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

g8internet.com

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Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#21

Post by jrockway »

Cyberterrorism is a bullshit argument. If you don't want your machines to be attacked from the Internet, don't connect them to the Internet. In fact, governments and big companies already do this!

At work, we have an IP network called BARONET. It's like the Internet except it's not. There is a bridge on one machine that proxies HTTP requests from this network to the Internet. There are no routes to the Internet.

This significantly reduces the possibility of "cyberattacks", since you'll have to go through that proxy box. (Which probably runs Windows, but hey... if you actually cared about security, you wouldn't do that. The rest of the idea is good.)

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#22

Post by xorglorb »

mahmud wrote: post #20
xorglorb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not an argument, that is a propaganda tool used against the easily-persuaded.

The easily-persuaded pretty much describes the majority of the electorate, at least in my country. The average American votes against his best interest. The official response to any opposition to totalitarian tactics is .. FUD. Something only less blatant than what I have written above.

Sadly true.

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#23

Post by gaius »

jrockway wrote: post #21

Cyberterrorism is a bullshit argument. If you don't want your machines to be attacked from the Internet, don't connect them to the Internet. In fact, governments and big companies already do this! At work, we have an IP network called BARONET. It's like the Internet except it's not. There is a bridge on one machine that proxies HTTP requests from this network to the Internet. There are no routes to the Internet. This…

Many years ago I worked on a secure system that comprised a Sun running the webserver, connected over a 9-pin RS232 serial cable to another box running Windows 95, on which the secure part of the system ran, which was in turn connected via an ISDN line to some mainframe somewhere. I've never heard of a case of Windows being compromised via the serial port!

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#24

Post by olalonde »

mahrain wrote: post #12
yason wrote: post #6

This in accord with the emerging counterforce of various anonymous networking projects that are reaching the state of being usable. These networks are likely to evolve to the point where, instead of using proxies and non-standard protocols, the users actually access a regular IPv6 subnet that simply uses the onion-routed private network such as Phantom or I2P as the carrier. I say IPv6 because nearly all operating sy…

I agree that even the Great Firewall of China can easily be beaten by simply using Tor, however, it is now our democratic duty to prevent this from becoming a necessity in the western world.

Democracy is highly overrated. What we need is a strong constitution that guarantees individual freedom. 51% of the population imposing their beliefs on the other 49% can lead to highly undesirable outcomes. Censorship, racism, systematic discrimination based on sexual orientation or religion come to mind. Democracy is fine as long as the role of the elected government is essentially limited to the protection of individual freedom.

Anyways, I'm getting carried away here. I simply wanted to point out that we shouldn't use the word democracy so liberally as it is often the thing we should be fighting. Let's talk about constitution instead :)

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#25

Post by gaius »

rizumu wrote: post #17

The corporations, rich and powerful want (at least the illusion) of full control over the communication channels so they can prevent honest people from organizing en masse and rising up. What is happening here in Madrid is a first for this country: http://www.tvspain.tv/blog/?p=3026

I don't know what you're smoking if you think "the corporations" have even 0.1% of the power of your own democratically elected government. Who has all the guns in your country? I bet it's not the phone company...

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#26

Post by rivd »

haberman wrote: post #13

This article is a sensationalist piece with very little content, the HN headline is misleading (the words "tax" and "monitor" do not appear anywhere on the target webpage), and the comments are impassioned soapbox generalizations. This is HN at its worst.

i must agree about the content. it could be more balanced.

two more articles about the event:

http://www.businessinsider.com/eg8-france

http://www.novaspivack.com/technology/the-e-g8-forum-unveile...

but i share the concerns of mr. spivack in the 2nd link. At first sight the conference seems a perfectly valid event about the internet at this moment. But Sarkozy is not a person who takes privacy very seriously.

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#28

Post by getsat »

olalonde wrote: post #24
mahrain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that even the Great Firewall of China can easily be beaten by simply using Tor, however, it is now our democratic duty to prevent this from becoming a necessity in the western world.

Democracy is highly overrated. What we need is a strong constitution that guarantees individual freedom. 51% of the population imposing their beliefs on the other 49% can lead to highly undesirable outcomes. Censorship, racism, systematic discrimination based on sexual orientation or religion come to mind. Democracy is fine as long as the role of the elected government is essentially limited to the protection of indi…

> 51% of the population

32% vote for candidate/party A, 33% vote for B, 35% vote for C.

65% are not represented. First past the post needs to go. :(

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#29

Post by gizzlon »

mycroftiv wrote: post #8

This is a clear case where we see the idea that governments should represent the will of their citizens break down completely. Every power structure serves its own needs first. In areas where the interest of governmental systems and the citizens are in alignment, democracy can work - but when there is a conflict between the will of a power structure to extend its power and influence and the desires of the citizens, g…

While I agree with most of what you say, I'm not so sure "large majorities in favour of free communication over the internet"

Do you have any data to back this up?

My guess is that if you frame it the right way, most people would vote for censoring the Internet

Re: G8 agenda calls for "civilized Internet": monitored, governed, controlled, taxed

#30

Post by bluedanieru »

olalonde wrote: post #24
mahrain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that even the Great Firewall of China can easily be beaten by simply using Tor, however, it is now our democratic duty to prevent this from becoming a necessity in the western world.

Democracy is highly overrated. What we need is a strong constitution that guarantees individual freedom. 51% of the population imposing their beliefs on the other 49% can lead to highly undesirable outcomes. Censorship, racism, systematic discrimination based on sexual orientation or religion come to mind. Democracy is fine as long as the role of the elected government is essentially limited to the protection of indi…

A constitution won't mean shit if the electorate continues to happily elect people who will ignore it. And if 51% of the people want to oppress the other 49% a constitution will not hold them back for long.

Don't pretend we have society of laws rather than of men, or that such a thing is even possible.

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