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The Spoon Theory (2003)

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Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#51

Post by pjc50 »

jackpirate wrote: post #26
reedf1 wrote: post #16

One of the effects of society is to reduce the number of 'spoons' any person needs to 'spend' a day. This is probably a good argument against those who are anti-automation. As a more efficient automated society slowly lowers the 'minimum spoon bar' that is required for net contribution.

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were cooking, cleaning, watching children, and performing other small tasks that made everyone's life a bit nicer. The only reason these "menial" jobs were available to them was the deliberate inefficiency of the Amish lifestyle.

The key thing there is not "no automation" but co-living in the same community; the main barrier to having your retired parents look after the children while you go to work is the need of most people to move across the country to look for jobs.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#52

Post by notatrumper »

padolsey wrote: post #43
Puts wrote: post #27

"Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities" I think the comments to this post testifies that no one has unlimited spoons. Most people struggle. Some more, some less.

TBQH I have a real dislike for the relativistic thinking that people apply to this. Everyone does struggle, yes. But the degree of struggle, for some, is exponentially more. To just participate in the smallest parts of life... eating, cleaning, emptying one's bowels, is a daily challange. What if you could only afford energy for one outing to the shop? What if taking a shower felt like running a marathon? What if mak…

And what exactly is the point of complaining about that?

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#53

Post by pjc50 »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #22
travisjungroth wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure. Addiction seems more like a clock than spoons.

It is a brain disorder: a diagnosable illness where the delta-FosB protein is overexpressed in the prefrontal cortex.

First I've heard of this. Somewhat contraindicated by the opiate addiction epidemic.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#54

Post by blauditore »

taneq wrote: post #34
travisjungroth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully departing from spoon theory, but sticking with money and motorcycles, this story was told to me by a friend of mine. This was a few decades ago and he was into racing Ducatis. The wise old man at the track was explaining how to go fast. The people in the garage that night didn’t seem to be getting it, so everyone got in the back of the Ford van they used for parts and the old man drove. “You have a dollar to sp…

You should always be either at the edge of your traction circle or at the full limit of one of your controls. Anything less is wasting time.

That's the theory. In practice, it's more complex and subtle:

- Not are limits are made equal. Some are okay to be approached from both sides, while others will make you crash very quickly. Racing is a lot about finding and feeling those limits, rather than just knowing that they exist and need to be applied.

- Changing gear, breaking, and applying gas all are physical actions that need some dexterity, to quickly switch between those within fractions of a second is sometimes infeasible. So racers end up just coasting for a short moment to avoid the high risk of a mistake for just a tiny gain.

- Throttle and breaks obviously can't always be fully applied depending on friction, or the danger of one of the wheels getting too much air.

- In a race there is a legit trade-off between lap times and tire wear. Losing too much material early-on will gain you some time initially, but make you lose more towards the end.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#55

Post by [deleted] »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #38
jackpirate wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were cooking, cleaning, watching children, and performing other small tasks that made everyone's life a bit nicer. The only reason these "menial" jobs were available to them was the deliberate inefficiency of the Amish lifestyle.

These things aren't unavailable in greater society. You simply have a choice. I'm not sure you have as much choice in Amish society, and I think the lack of choice is cruel. If my elbow is broken, I can't cook efficiently. If it doesn't work correctly, same. If walking to the toilet saps my energy, I shouldn't be expected to do the same. I should also now mention that elderly doesn't mean you are sick. Loads of folks…

[deleted]

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#56

Post by FeepingCreature »

k__ wrote: post #48
jackpirate wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were cooking, cleaning, watching children, and performing other small tasks that made everyone's life a bit nicer. The only reason these "menial" jobs were available to them was the deliberate inefficiency of the Amish lifestyle.

I think the Amish optimize not for minimum spoon use but for maximum spoon availability.

Predictable spoon consumption?

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#57

Post by plutonorm »

Puts wrote: post #27

"Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities" I think the comments to this post testifies that no one has unlimited spoons. Most people struggle. Some more, some less.

I wonder if I have a slight disability then. I have an over active mind, no diagnosis or anything, but I need to stay away from stimulating surroundings otherwise I'm going to have a bad time. I have to pick and choose what I do because if I run out of spoons I get intense anxiety and the desire to crawl into the nearest hole.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#58

Post by rtp »

jpxw wrote: post #15

Another way of looking at this: Everybody has experienced having a flu. Everybody knows that feeling when you’re sick, and suddenly you realise how much you take for granted when you aren’t. In fact, you even start to _envy_ those around you who haven’t got whatever bug you have! Being chronically ill is like living in that world permanently.

It breaks my heart, especially for those who become severely chronically ill with diseases like ME/CFS in their teenage years, with little to no indication things will ever get better. Imagine that, maybe spending your next 50-60 years housebound, or even worse: bed bound. Add to that the sheer scale of how ignorant or severely misguided many people are about chronic illness (even doctors, ESPECIALLY doctors!), which imposes such stigma, guilt, and shame on these sufferers.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#59

Post by rozza »

My wife has chronic cancer* and one day when talking to the doctor at the hospice after a period of grueling treatment she talked about only having so many "spoons" in a day. The doctor liked the analogy as it was a fun way at looking at a real issue.

I'm pleased I now know where it comes from! This analogy helped us both come to terms with managing her lower energy levels.

* I use the term chronic cancer as she has Stage 4 cancer. The term terminal cancer to describe her cancer has been so incredibly unhelpful, its taken me years to frame where we as a family fit into it and how we can live. Essentially, the term has caused more fear than was warranted at the time. So until she needs end of life care, I won't call it terminal even though that is the expected outcome. That maybe 6 months from now or 6 years from now.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#60

Post by praptak »

taneq wrote: post #34
travisjungroth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully departing from spoon theory, but sticking with money and motorcycles, this story was told to me by a friend of mine. This was a few decades ago and he was into racing Ducatis. The wise old man at the track was explaining how to go fast. The people in the garage that night didn’t seem to be getting it, so everyone got in the back of the Ford van they used for parts and the old man drove. “You have a dollar to sp…

You should always be either at the edge of your traction circle or at the full limit of one of your controls. Anything less is wasting time.

It's similar to server apps. They should either have empty queue or max out a resource (CPU, disk bandwidth, network bandwidth).
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