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The Spoon Theory (2003)

butyoudontlooksick.com

31–40 of 133 posts

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#31
post #16

One of the effects of society is to reduce the number of 'spoons' any person needs to 'spend' a day. This is probably a good argument against those who are anti-automation. As a more efficient automated society slowly lowers the 'minimum spoon bar' that is required for net contribution.

I don't believe this especially. We've replaced a large amount of our work with a huge amount of bureaucracy. There's so much of it that it feels like I'm being overwhelmed by just it some days.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#32

I work by effort/benefit ratio. Many programmers start ambitious projects with very high effort and low benefit, like e.g. a browser/os/videogame/library which they maintain at expense of their health and limited time. Low effort, small-scale projects with immediate benefit/utility are much less taxing on health and don't require constant maintenance. Unix way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thin…

I do something a bit similar with learning new tech. I used to just soak up whatever new thing I found interesting, but these days I don't have time to do this and so I have to make sure that every new thing I do learn "pays rent". It has to not just be immediately useful (unless there's no other way to solve the problem with my existing toolkit) but also to generate value in an ongoing manner for it to be worth the time investment.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#33
> "Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities, and energy to do whatever they desire, especially young people. For the most part, they do not need to worry about the effects of their actions. So for my explanation, I used spoons to convey this point."

Not so sure about this... everyone has limited resources, time and energy being the biggest, finances usually a big one as well. How accutely you are aware of them perhaps depends on both your situation (such as having serious health issues that need attention) and what exactly you are trying to do with them.

Not taking your resources for granted is always helpful though. (Although someone else not sharing a resource doesn't necessarily make it worth more to me; e.g. I'm not happier to be able to walk specifically because someone else can't.)

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#34
post #12

When I was first learning to ride motorcycles I came across "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code, which uses a similar analogy for attention. In this analogy, you have $10 worth of attention to spend. Maybe as a novice rider you spend $5 just coordinating steering, clutch, gears and brakes to keep the bike upright. You then spend $3 on navigating, which leaves you with only $2 left to pay attention to the traffic aro…

Fully departing from spoon theory, but sticking with money and motorcycles, this story was told to me by a friend of mine. This was a few decades ago and he was into racing Ducatis. The wise old man at the track was explaining how to go fast. The people in the garage that night didn’t seem to be getting it, so everyone got in the back of the Ford van they used for parts and the old man drove. “You have a dollar to sp…

You should always be either at the edge of your traction circle or at the full limit of one of your controls. Anything less is wasting time.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#35
post #13

> I explained that the difference in being sick and being healthy is having to make choices or to consciously think about things when the rest of the world doesn’t have to. The healthy have the luxury of a life without choices, a gift most people take for granted.

What choices do you mean? I'd say that healthy people have more freedom so they have more choices to make. When you come down to it health is about freedom. Freedom from preoccupying pain, constricting impairment, freedom to do whatever. Choices are a symptom of freedom. We must have a different definition somewhere in here. Haven't read the article yet. Edit: Having read the story, the spoons are a metaphor for unit…

I have small fibre neuropathy in my arms and legs. I don't do the whole "spoons thing", but I do have to make spoon-style choices.

A choice I might make is: will I go out for a short walk with the rest of the family? By doing so, I'll hurt even more, and will need to sleep when I get back - so extra pain for me, and the kids miss out on playing with me later for an hour or two.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#36
post #35
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What choices do you mean? I'd say that healthy people have more freedom so they have more choices to make. When you come down to it health is about freedom. Freedom from preoccupying pain, constricting impairment, freedom to do whatever. Choices are a symptom of freedom. We must have a different definition somewhere in here. Haven't read the article yet. Edit: Having read the story, the spoons are a metaphor for unit…

I have small fibre neuropathy in my arms and legs. I don't do the whole "spoons thing", but I do have to make spoon-style choices. A choice I might make is: will I go out for a short walk with the rest of the family? By doing so, I'll hurt even more, and will need to sleep when I get back - so extra pain for me, and the kids miss out on playing with me later for an hour or two.

I have to say, I'm really enjoying the spoon metaphor. Very catchy. Hope you're having a nice day.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully departing from spoon theory, but sticking with money and motorcycles, this story was told to me by a friend of mine. This was a few decades ago and he was into racing Ducatis. The wise old man at the track was explaining how to go fast. The people in the garage that night didn’t seem to be getting it, so everyone got in the back of the Ford van they used for parts and the old man drove. “You have a dollar to sp…

You should always be either at the edge of your traction circle or at the full limit of one of your controls. Anything less is wasting time.

This notion of limits and edge reminds me of Hunter Thompson's musings on "The Line" in his piece about the Hell's Angels. He argues (wildly paraphrasing) that the fundamental draw (and in some sense, the art) of motorcycles or extreme sports is in finding that edge or limit. The problem he identifies being that you cannot really know where it is without going over it, with all the consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%27s_Angels:_The_Strange_a...

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#38
post #16

One of the effects of society is to reduce the number of 'spoons' any person needs to 'spend' a day. This is probably a good argument against those who are anti-automation. As a more efficient automated society slowly lowers the 'minimum spoon bar' that is required for net contribution.

I don't think this is true. I once spent some time at an Amish community, and I saw their elderly and sick all living relatively productive lives. They were cooking, cleaning, watching children, and performing other small tasks that made everyone's life a bit nicer. The only reason these "menial" jobs were available to them was the deliberate inefficiency of the Amish lifestyle.

These things aren't unavailable in greater society. You simply have a choice. I'm not sure you have as much choice in Amish society, and I think the lack of choice is cruel.

If my elbow is broken, I can't cook efficiently. If it doesn't work correctly, same. If walking to the toilet saps my energy, I shouldn't be expected to do the same.

I should also now mention that elderly doesn't mean you are sick. Loads of folks are busy throughout old age. "sick" doesn't always mean you can't do anything, either, and I'm pretty sure the Amish communities take care of folks that can't.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#39
Reflecting on how this applies to the tech industry, IME we're still very behind in accommodating those with chronic illnesses and disabilities. The 40-hour work week is still, on the whole, the minimum expectation across many FAANG-like companies. If falling ill during tenure, such companies ~generally seem receptive and supportive. But if you try to join such companies when you are already chronically ill or disabled, and ask for part-time working arrangements or reactive flexibility (e.g. I only have X spoons today so I can't work as much, but I can work a little ["semi-sick day"]), it's much much harder. Nowadays I only have about 2-3 hours of cognitive time per day. After that I need to lie down and do nothing. It seems so unfair that entire swathes of competent individuals are implicitly sidelined because of their illnesses or disabilities.

Re: The Spoon Theory (2003)

#40
post #27

"Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities" I think the comments to this post testifies that no one has unlimited spoons. Most people struggle. Some more, some less.

But comparatively, they do. They aren't considering that taking a shower that day might take the energy they have for the morning.

Struggling is different: It takes some energy away, but for many, you can theoretically take away some struggle. Get a new car, have enough food and money, get over a temporary health condition. Get time to get over a divorce. There are curese for many struggles. The same things won't help someone with a chronic disease... who often have the same struggles as greater society on top of whatever illness they have.

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