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Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

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Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#141

Post by madeofpalk »

thrashh wrote: post #25
topcat31 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mentioned Glitch and Replit in the article - they're great and I love them but there's still something missing about relying on these platforms imho. I think cementing a default coding environment right into the browser would make it a lot more accessible - and actually be much closer to real coding where you're manipulating files and running code. Plus: glitch/replit are quite slow to do any real coding inside of vs…

But why stop there? Let’s bundle something like Excel or Powerpoint, or Photoshop or Final Cut. If we’re deciding to bundle additional software with a browser, why would a programming environment (chosen based on someone’s favorite language) be top priority?

Imagine if there was some kind of runtime the browser shipped with that could let developers create all kind of applications that are downloaded and run on demand. That would be pretty cool.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#142

Post by swiftcoder »

A lot of dunking of the "git gud" variety going on here, but the author has a solid point. Requiring a novice to learn arcana of a 30 year old Unix system before they can learn to program is purely extraneous.

We could package programming languages up with GUI installers that set everything up correctly and let you get right to the code - and in fact, we used to. If you install IntelliJ, you'll have a fully-working Java environment out of the box. The same for Visual Studio.

Why the "hacker mentality" languages think this sort of user-obsession is beneath them, well, that escapes me...

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#143

Post by Ciantic »

> Can you imagine if the beginner version of Node.js came pre-installed with a GUI for managing and running your code?

It doesn't even need to come pre installed, as long as the GUI could install node almost silently.

E.g. if VSCode had some intelligence built like when it sees package.json and would prompt "Would you like to install Node" and it would do it's magic if user wanted. Lots of small problems would need to be solved, like where to install it etc.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#144

Post by 0-_-0 »

kichimi wrote: post #130
0-_-0 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using a complicated system when you don't have to.

Node.js is a command line program, intended for writing server side applications on headless servers.

The command line is a layer of abstraction that could be made unnecessary for programming. You could program in Turbo Pascal without a command line in the 90s

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#145

Post by NewLogic »

refactor_master wrote: post #47
johnnymonster wrote: post #6

Am I the only one that doesn’t know how to code in a spreadsheet?

I was thinking the same. I have no problems dealing with the terminal, but man if I ever have to do more than adding numbers in a spreadsheet...

I feel this deeply. Building binaries in a docker container to deploy as a Lambda Layer? Aces. Anything more complex than basic math functions across a few cells? Burn it with fire.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#146

Post by sparsely »

Ciantic wrote: post #143

> Can you imagine if the beginner version of Node.js came pre-installed with a GUI for managing and running your code? It doesn't even need to come pre installed, as long as the GUI could install node almost silently. E.g. if VSCode had some intelligence built like when it sees package.json and would prompt "Would you like to install Node" and it would do it's magic if user wanted. Lots of small problems would need t…

vscode does this when you open a C# file already, makes it very easy to get started.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#147

Post by dijit »

user-the-name wrote: post #106
malux85 wrote: post #88

If the author has “been playing with the web and code for years” and is still “wtf” on /usr/local/bin in $PATH it shows a lack of discipline and structure in their learning. I see this in many in many of my apprentices - the desire for instant gratification and the lack of experience means they refuse to do anything that doesn’t immediately proceed them closer to their goal. Here’s the thing with programming - you ca…

/usr/local/bin has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with programming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. It is completely superfluous knowledge. It is only required because, as the author correctly points out, the tools we use are BAD. They are absolutely fucking AWFUL. /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. It's still here because we refuse to fix these ridiculous things. Nobody sho…

> /usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades.

Are you taking the piss? Should we also remove SOCKET's because they were introduced in that same OS?

It should be noted that _EVERY_ modern operating system implements a "path" system, even the ones that are very divergent.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#148

Post by viceroyalbean »

user-the-name wrote: post #116
kichimi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how the command-line is pointless. If investing time into learning the ins and outs of a complicated system does not make you clever then please explain to me what does make someone clever?

"The command line" is not pointless. The current popular implementation of a command line, is, however, pointlessly complicated and esoteric for no real gain. It could be improved massively.

What do you mean by "current popular implementation of a command line"? The shell, common tools (e.g ls, cat, grep), command line interfaces for other programs?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#149

Post by swiftcoder »

taneq wrote: post #38
catlifeonmars wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all about reducing the barrier to entry. Many people find the command line daunting. Why not reduce these barriers to entry? Why require someone to understand $path to start coding in JavaScript?

I guess it's possible that new aspiring programmers will gain the fortitude to read documentation after a little while programming, but I can't help feeling that if someone isn't able to type "computer path" into a search engine from the start, they probably won't be able to figure out a whole lot of programming.

I'd like to point out here that I just spent a good 5 minutes punching variants on "computer path", "node path", "node install path", etc. into Google. And exactly zero results on the first page for any of those queries have anything to do with how to configure the PATH variable in your shell.

If someone didn't know what they were trying to solve for here, I'm not sure google would help them succeed.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#150

Post by jeroenhd »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #53
shatteredspace wrote: post #8

I take the "wtf is user/local/bin in $path?" to be a question from a non-tech person that is interested in learning to code. I can't be sure though since the author stated he has failed to install Node js. Should Chrome have Node JS loaded into it during install? I don't do web-dev so my answer is no. Should there be browsers made for those learning web-dev that come with these? By all means, sure. Go nuts. This also…

My question is: why can’t the Node installer add /usr/local/bin to the path itself (if needed)? Why force me to do it? The Windows installer did it for me. I can just type `node` or `deno` into PowerShell and it loads up a REPL. I never had to add them to `PATH`.

On what platform doesn't it? I've installed node on Windows and various flavours of Linux and I've never needed to extend $PATH for it. Is this a mac thing?
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