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Why can't I write code inside my browser?

tomcritchlow.com

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Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#101

Post by Brian_K_White »

csense wrote: post #34

A lot of you guys are hating on the author for not being able to figure out how to install Nodejs. Yet if you're old enough to have gotten started in the time of JavaScript in the late '90s, or QBasic in the early '90s, or systems like the BBC Micro or TRS-80 in earlier decades, you should know what the author's talking about. Everything you need to program is just there . It just works , there's no extra installatio…

"A lot of you guys are hating on the author for not being able to figure out how to install Nodejs."

Nope. That's not what they're criticising.

"Yet if you're old enough to have gotten started in the time of JavaScript in the late '90s, or QBasic in the early '90s, or systems like the BBC Micro or TRS-80 in earlier decades, you should know what the author's talking about.

Everything you need to program is just there. It just works, there's no extra installation, you start a program and start coding."

Bash is 5000x more powerful and user-friendly programming environment than any version of rom BASIC ever was.

qbasic... well guess what? qbasic was not necessarily just there. It might be there. You have to type the command at a command line, and if it doesn't work, you have to investigate %PATH%

Bash kills basic hands down, as a programming language mind you, using only it's built-in features, forget the fact that it's also a wrapper around exec(), and it is right there exactly like the the old rom basics were.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#102

Post by secondcoming »

This blog post is proof of why what the author wants should never happen.

Coding is about solving problems. Coding is not for everyone. If he cannot even be bothered to find out what $PATH is, then coding is not for him.

He wants to doodle, not code. Why should he expect any browser to cater to his needs?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#103

Post by sbergot »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #33
tidenly wrote: post #26

Not all documentation should be aimed at an absolute beginner - the authors point about $PATH seems moot to me, especially considering how easy it is to look up. Should a library also explain how an async function works in JS when introducing its feature that uses promises? Of course not. Any field requires technical knowledge, and we're lucky we live in a world where its increasingly easier to overcome any roadblock…

It’s all about reducing the barrier to entry. Many people find the command line daunting. Why not reduce these barriers to entry? Why require someone to understand $path to start coding in JavaScript?

I agree with the sentiment. But in order to build something that lower the barrier to entry you need an incentive. Building tools is hard and costly. Maintaining them even more.

In video games you have blueprint systems because the economy supports this idea. For kids you have scratch.

For web dev you have some solutions but my guess is that when someone wants to use node there isn't yet any useful solution (outside of playgrounds) that is cheap enough to make and remove the need for some basic computer knowledge.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#104

Post by user-the-name »

kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason.

Programmers tend to get very proud of the completely pointless knowledge they have to acquire to use the pointlessly complicated tools they do, and they confuse that with being clever.

It's not. It's really not. Nothing has to be this esoteric and annoying. We've just chosen to keep things like this because we think it makes us clever.

Programming can and should be much, much more user friendly than it is now.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#106

Post by user-the-name »

malux85 wrote: post #88

If the author has “been playing with the web and code for years” and is still “wtf” on /usr/local/bin in $PATH it shows a lack of discipline and structure in their learning. I see this in many in many of my apprentices - the desire for instant gratification and the lack of experience means they refuse to do anything that doesn’t immediately proceed them closer to their goal. Here’s the thing with programming - you ca…

/usr/local/bin has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with programming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. It is completely superfluous knowledge.

It is only required because, as the author correctly points out, the tools we use are BAD. They are absolutely fucking AWFUL.

/usr/local/bin is an implementation detail from an OS nobody has used for decades. It's still here because we refuse to fix these ridiculous things. Nobody should need to know this.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#107

Post by DanielKehoe »

user-the-name wrote: post #104
kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason. Programmers tend to get very proud of the completely pointless knowledge they have to acquire to use the pointlessly complicated tools they do, and they confuse that with being clever. It's not. It's really not. Nothing has to be this esoteric and annoying. We've just chosen to keep things like this because we th…

It's time to refactor the last ten years of professional web development.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#108

Post by user-the-name »

DanielKehoe wrote: post #107
user-the-name wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason. Programmers tend to get very proud of the completely pointless knowledge they have to acquire to use the pointlessly complicated tools they do, and they confuse that with being clever. It's not. It's really not. Nothing has to be this esoteric and annoying. We've just chosen to keep things like this because we th…

It's time to refactor the last ten years of professional web development.

It's time top refactor the last THIRTY years of absolute garbage development in general.

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#109

Post by kichimi »

user-the-name wrote: post #104
kichimi wrote: post #96

I try to keep my comments nice on HN but in this case I can't, I've met this kind of person many times now and I just can't hold back. The author is lazy, and is channeling his energy into complaining rather than learning. He believes he is by default an expert on the 'user friendliness' of programming. His comments don't really make much sense, and come across as whining that should be ignored. "People hate command…

The author is 100% correct on everything. Programming is massively over-complicated for no useful reason. Programmers tend to get very proud of the completely pointless knowledge they have to acquire to use the pointlessly complicated tools they do, and they confuse that with being clever. It's not. It's really not. Nothing has to be this esoteric and annoying. We've just chosen to keep things like this because we th…

Please explain how the command-line is pointless. If investing time into learning the ins and outs of a complicated system does not make you clever then please explain to me what does make someone clever?

Re: Why can't I write code inside my browser?

#110

Post by codethief »

csense wrote: post #34

A lot of you guys are hating on the author for not being able to figure out how to install Nodejs. Yet if you're old enough to have gotten started in the time of JavaScript in the late '90s, or QBasic in the early '90s, or systems like the BBC Micro or TRS-80 in earlier decades, you should know what the author's talking about. Everything you need to program is just there . It just works , there's no extra installatio…

> How hard would be to have a default Firefox environment for budding coders?

Before the times of Firefox, Mozilla (the browser, not the company) actually did have something like that: Mozilla Composer[0]. Granted, it was a WYSIWYG editor and today no one writes entire websites that way anymore. But it still allowed basically anyone to start their own website – an idea which I still find very appealing as it's so close to Tim Berners-Lee's vision of a web where everyone is both a consumer and a producer. (Whether or not this vision was ever realistic is a different matter.)

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Composer

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