U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#221

Post by kls » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #201

kls wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are off base on this, I think there is a small contingent of the far right that are white identity adherents. The rest get labeled in with them, because they have not been vocal in their distancing themselves from that contingent, thus groups like the Proud Boys get lumped in with the white supremacist's and white identity adherents. While the Proud Boy's are a radical alt-right group, white identify is n…

The Proud boys do have members from all races, but not very many of them; and the vision of masculinity they present is extremely narrow rather than inclusive. There's significant internal tension within the group between the 'optical' approach espoused by its nominal president Enrique Tarrio and a more explicitly racist/neo-nazi one proposed by his informal rival, Kyle Chapman. I think the white identity thing is mo…

I am sure there is, no doubt, overlap of people that associate with the Proud Boys and also associate with white supremacist's, but they (the Proud Boys) have been very clear that white nationalism / supremacy is not their charter and I do not think it is fair to paint them with that brush. That being said, I do agree with you on their view of masculinity and it is fair fodder to critique them on. That is their point, they stand for a certain set of values, they are very clear in what those values are and that is what they should be weighed in the balance for. For the record I am not defending them, rather I prefer to see peoples arguments weighed for what they are saying not for what other people paint on them. It's not fair and it is attempt to dilute their message. I think their message stands for itself and most people will reject it. Attempts to paint them as a racist organization when they are clearly not, only muddy the water and lend credence to their argument that they are being treated unfairly. It plays into their hands.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#222

Post by ASalazarMX » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #155

ASalazarMX wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Yes, we have many people doing horrible things all over the world, but people being vile because their ancestors had less sun than others is a special kind of pointless stupidity.

> It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Disgusted sure, I am with you on that. But "can still exist?" With the number of stories just on HN about social media dark patterns and recommendation engine rabbit-holes? It's difficult to understand that as anything other than puffery.

I expect some people will do horrible things for personal gain, we all are egoists to a degree after all. What I have a hard time digesting is the irrationality of racism: why not pursue material instead of imaginary gain?

Racism is more crazy religion than ideology.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#223

Post by covidthrow3 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #197

Isn't it odd that a french computer programmer wrote their suicide note in english? Aren't suicide notes generally for friends and family? Aren't the french typically very protective of their language and culture? The note seems intended for USA readership. It's all very strange.

He also wrote it in French. They only provided the English version though.

On his website there was both an English and French version.

https://archive.is/rtBrn

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#224

Post by covidthrow3 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

I find it funny that none of the people they listed were inside the capitol building. The only one that came close was Nick Fuentes and he was on the lawn but didn't go inside. What a sensationalist article.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#225

Post by ASalazarMX » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:08 AM UTC

mothsonasloth wrote: post #87

ASalazarMX wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. Yes, we have many people doing horrible things all over the world, but people being vile because their ancestors had less sun than others is a special kind of pointless stupidity.

>It's disgusting how such primitive people can still exist in our modern world. What a snobbish and elitist thing to say. Try saying that to the Sentinelese or Amazonian tribes that still don't have contact with our messed up globalist world. One of the reasons we are living in this chaotic time is because of a growing middle class elite living in metropolitan areas who are either unwilling or incapable of understand…

Maybe it will sound less snobbish (although more self-serving I fear) if I tell you I'm Mexican?

Mexico is a mixed race country, you will find people of all colors here, the concept of race is so weak common people are barely aware of it. There are racists who see whiter people as more beautiful, or darker (specially indigenous) people as lesser, but hate is extremely rare and frowned upon.

It's the hate part that I can't wrap my head around. Xenophobic tribes maybe hate visitors for their race, but they also could reject them for their effect in neighboring tribes, we don't know.

TL;DR: I can understand if people find Scottish people attractive, or Mexican people ugly, but I am indeed guilty of not understanding how people can actually grow hate from that.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#226

Post by flukus » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 3:46 AM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #210

api wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall thinking of the Unabomber manifesto when I first started seeing the alt-right emerge in a big way in the early 20-teens. The alt-right and adjacent movements sort of do belong under the umbrella of neo-primitivism. There are a lot of ideological parallels and deep similarities in the emotional appeals. It takes me back to when I read the Unabomber manifesto online as a teenager when it was first printed. I l…

> with the emotional appeal to a simple world with simple ideals and a connection to nature. I mean, I can understand the appeal, but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal. I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power. > Without real traumas and exis…

> I wonder if this is less a longing for "simpler times" than a longing for a society in which one has more power.

I always thought it was more about control and self determination rather than power for most, something many here running linux and avoiding cloud services can naturally sympathize with. It's a very old urge with even the aristocrats of ancient Rome had similar notions, farming and getting your hands dirty was held in high esteem for instance. We also see it in Tolkiens writing about hobbits who loved farming and never craved power. It's the sort of theme that seems to be a constant desire throughout history.

One of the recipients of the bitcoins is Luke Smith, I don't agree with his politics but from watching his youtube he seems to practice the self sufficiency he preaches to an extent, from growing his own food to running linux. He's a bit like Kaczynski but spends more time on his vim configuration than mail bombs.

> but it's sort of ironic that those fantasies are exchanged and amplified using the most unnatural and complex technology we have at our disposal.

I think in the long run technology will become sufficiently advanced to solve this paradox, anyone that desires to will be able to become fully self sufficient, we'll fire up our 3D printers to make a pencil instead of relying on the global supply chains we do now. It's either that or our psyche has to adapt to being colony animals, but after 2000 years we don't seem to be getting much closer to that.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#227

Post by mcantelon » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

hi5eyes wrote: post #156

odessacubbage wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also popular with edgy twitterposters and anons, and a large swath of online news-aware people under 40. there are plenty of sunday morning accelerationists for whom all these sentiments could more accurately reflect malaise and disenfranchisement from party politics that increasingly represent no one. personally i wouldn't grant many of these statements much more weight than 'subscribe to pewdiepie' however as insti…

theres a terrifying amount of acc/horticulture/anprim edgy twitterposters that follow nick land @outsideness that have a large overlap (if not a circle) with neo nazi twitter

There's lot of edgy people on Twitter... lots of folks with hammers and sickles, ironic or otherwise, in their handles, despite the many documented atrocities committed by communist states.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#228

Post by jki275 » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

kristopolous wrote: post #213

gambiting wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But attribute what? I'm just saying that plenty of people believe this. No attribution whatsoever.

Oh sorry, I thought you postulated the birthers and qanon believers were the same people. Totally plausible but I haven't seen direct evidence. (I also haven't, say, done any analysis of historical tweets from qanon believers for the evidence) It's ultimately unimportant as they're both part of the same overarching bullshit movement, but something sounding logical doesn't constitute valid evidence.

You realize the birther movement was started by the Clinton camp when she was running against Obama, right?

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#229

Post by anigbrowl » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 5:28 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #204

anigbrowl wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So she sets the record straight over 20 years later, only after being appointed by Biden, that she was only pretending to be racist. Yeah... sure.. From your own link: Later, in an interview with The Crimson, Clarke suggested that "The information [contained in the letter] is not necessarily something we believe, but some information that we think those pursuing a true understanding of The Bell Curve theory should ei…

At the time her response was that she doesn't necessarily believe in black superiority... it's just something people should address. Does this sound ok to your ears? If this was a white supremacist, we would all correctly be shouting about how it's a dog whistle and not an acceptable response. I wish more people would read 'How to Be an Antiracist.' I believe he's absolute right in that the only way forward is to cal…

Trying to peel individual phrases off from the context of the whole letter (which you oddly chose not to cite) isn't helping your argument. And if she were a white supremacist, that would be an extremely different situation from someone who's a member of an oppressed minority making snarky remarks about a book that she perceives as pseudoscientific race baiting. You've really misrepresented this whole episode, but thanks for your concern.

Re: U.S. insurrectionists received $500k in bitcoins from French donor

#230

Post by JamesBarney » Fri, Jan 15, 2021, 5:29 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #161

ordinaryradical wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a good take, but these points actually makes their attitude even stranger: they are not afraid of neoliberalism, which is the defacto economic position of both the left and the right, but of "communism." Biden is a "communist," or "godless," or "anti-American." What do these statements actually mean? You can argue that their feelings of economic greivance make sense--but their voting habits are a rejection of…

> Biden is a "communist," or "godless," or "anti-American." What do these statements actually mean? They didn't attack Biden as being those things. They attacked Biden for being old, not entirely there, and weak barrier against the radical elements of the Democratic Party. For example Karen Bass, who was on Biden's VP shortlist, had a bunch of communist ties: https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/karen-bass-vice-presid…

I agree with most of what you said but disagree with the ACA being bad for small businesses.

> Trump voters already have healthcare. They're disproportionately likely to be folks who bear greater burdens under the ACA--like small business owners. Or the majority of people who are happy with their private health insurance.

I don't understand this at all. The ACA has been a godsend for myself who over the last 8 years been an owner(for 4 years) and employee(for 4 years) at a small business. It allowed me to work for a small business(as both an employee and an owner) because I could get insurance. I tried getting insurance before the ACA and was denied because my testosterone levels were 5% under the cut off for normal.

And second it's been super helpful because the biggest barrier to recruiting for a small business is healthcare. Specifically many developers are willing to take a 30k+ paycut to get premium healthcare(which isn't providing 30k of value but is unpurchaseable for small clients) and this problem was worse pre-ACA. If we had a Medicare option the job market would be more efficient, and small businesses would be better able to compete with enterprise.