Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

nytimes.com

431–440 of 472 posts

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your issues with opinion columns from 15 to 20 years ago does not render the entire medium of 21st century journalism "fake news". I'm certain if you read the entirety of the New York Times (and many other outlets) published articles on the subject you would find a range of perspectives, not just the ones that you're purporting sum up journalism of the past 20 years. I was reading the same outlets you were at that ti…

> Those sections are not all equal in their "truthiness" So why are low-truthiness sections like 'opinion pieces' and 'commentaries' published? Well they're cheap, but also because someone's pushing a particular agenda, or agendas. So how's that different from someone spouting outrage-wrapped half-truths on social media?

Opinion columns are a curated forum of ideas, including agendas, sure.

But the publishing of them does not represent them as being anything of any validity any more than publishing "letters to the editor" asserts the opinions therein are of any practical value other than the exposure to the fact that they are indeed held. It's an attempt to hold an even remotely civilized, and detached discussion at length.

No single opinion column is a conclusion, except maybe that of the writer's. That's why you'll see debates go on for extended periods of time-columns and papers written back and forth on singular ideas sometimes for years, decades even.

But I'm not here to defend opinion columns—I rarely read them myself outside of a few more local polemics. I was discussing the dishonest treatment of an "MSM" that is only "fake news" and "propaganda" because of a misreading and lack of media literacy in general. (If only many people who frequented forums like Parler treated those discussions with as much deference rather than planting bombs and bludgeoning a federal officer to death)

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your issues with opinion columns from 15 to 20 years ago does not render the entire medium of 21st century journalism "fake news". I'm certain if you read the entirety of the New York Times (and many other outlets) published articles on the subject you would find a range of perspectives, not just the ones that you're purporting sum up journalism of the past 20 years. I was reading the same outlets you were at that ti…

I’m glad that you were able to extricate enough material in order for you to exalt this type of medium. :) Their lack of understanding and unfounded purpoting has been betrayed.

If you want to discuss my comment in other terms, I'd be happy to. However, I only aimed to be as clear as possible—using the correct words is part of that. A great deal of the vitriol that tends to bubble up in discussions about sensitive subjects seems to come from misunderstandings—accurate language is one of the few ways we can try to prevent such misunderstandings.

And stuff.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of space between "what violates the law" (or explicit ios/play store Terms of Use for that matter) and "what will get you kicked off twitter" and I believe Parler operated in that space. Users could post stuff that would get them booted off twitter, but that was legal speech. This was fine with iOS & play store & AWS until they all simultaneously and independently (wink wink) realized it violated their…

> Users could post stuff that would get them booted off twitter, but that was legal speech I'm curious what kind of posts would definitely fall into this distinction. I see plenty of really distasteful, vile comments show up on Twitter. And AFAIK inciting violence is illegal. So the area between those seems to me like it would be pretty narrow. My impression of Parler is more that they only deleted illegal speech of…

> pretty narrow

Not so for better or worse. Multiple people have been banned from Twitter for calling a human rights litigation troll (and Twitter troll) a man (he is male).

https://nationalpost.com/news/free-speech-activist-lindsay-s...

https://mobile.twitter.com/bindelj/status/118726943929891225...

Calling a male troll “he” is definitely not illegal, yet you can be banned from Twitter for it. It’s not an incitement to violence, it’s not even borderline. Meanwhile that troll can ridicule one of the women in question for having a reproductive abnormality, so go figure. There’s a lot Twitter will ban you for that’s not remotely illegal, the gap is wide.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the real real answer is that Google would summon an enormous shitstorm of antitrust action down on their heads if they even thought about kicking their biggest domestic competitor in the ad space out of the app store.

Can Facebook violate any TOS and not get kicked off because of antitrust? They could justify it to a court, because "Facebook incubated the insurrection" or "Facebook broke our rules" not because "we don't like enabling our competitors".

Apple disabled both Facebook and Google's iOS enterprise certificates because they were using them to collect data from external participants in violation of the ToS, although that wasn't the main app. And the access was restored once they took down the offending apps.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/31/18206020/apple-facebook-i...

If the violations were serious enough, I think Apple/Google would consider some kind of temporary shutdown for the Facebook app if they thought they could weather the PR storm.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#435
post #301
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link you posted to courtlistener.com shows that Parler responded within two days to Amazon's request and apologized it took them a long time. You wrote that Amazon warned Parler about their content, but that's not what your link shows. It shows that Amazon asked a question about policies regarding specific posts, and Parler answered with their policies.

Full story: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/filing-amazon-wa... Also note that it wasn't removed. I'm not even going to repeat that post here, but absolutely no platform would keep this online if reported, so "very similar terms of service to other content companies" as someone up this thread claimed isn't exactly true.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#436
post #301
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link you posted to courtlistener.com shows that Parler responded within two days to Amazon's request and apologized it took them a long time. You wrote that Amazon warned Parler about their content, but that's not what your link shows. It shows that Amazon asked a question about policies regarding specific posts, and Parler answered with their policies.

Full story: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/filing-amazon-wa... Also note that it wasn't removed. I'm not even going to repeat that post here, but absolutely no platform would keep this online if reported, so "very similar terms of service to other content companies" as someone up this thread claimed isn't exactly true.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#437
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link you posted to courtlistener.com shows that Parler responded within two days to Amazon's request and apologized it took them a long time. You wrote that Amazon warned Parler about their content, but that's not what your link shows. It shows that Amazon asked a question about policies regarding specific posts, and Parler answered with their policies.

This is what AWS said in their letter to Parler before cutting them off. It sounds reasonable enough to me https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/read-amazons-letter-to-...

Thanks!

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#438
post #421

We should bar mega corporations like Amazon and Facebook from receiving public funds and subsidies. One of the many things that invalidates that argument that one should just "start your own ISP/cloud service/etc" is the fact that these megacorporations receive billions in things like subsidies. I would argue that if private companies can do what they want but the government is forbidden from favoring religion, contr…

One further: we should bar the government from giving subsidies and contracts. The government should do the work itself, not contract out to third parties who don't have to spend the money with the same constraints government has.

I would agree with this too. If contractors are able to attract the talent after government money is filtered through however many layers of bureaucracy, why wouldn't the government be able to attract that talent by paying directly?

As an american software engineer I've dreamed of working for the government, but unfortunately the opportunities with contractors far outnumber (not to speak of how the compensation and benefits compare) direct government employment, let alone private industry overall. I would gladly take a 5-figure pay cut for the chance to do the equivalent of my current work but for the government.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#439
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rational and reasonable point. BUT, let me muddy it and make it harder to make your point feel so confidently clear-cut: Scenario. WhatsApp groups begin to be used as gathering places. Open secret. Bomb or explosion or storming of a government building ensures. Question: is it a question of national security to investigate and pressure to censor or eliminate the platform, and if not why not? Scenario. The b…

The big difference is whether platform refuses to moderate those .05% on Parler. Afaik, twitter for all its moderation flaws is not refusing to moderate those and reacts to big real world events significantly more quickly. And yes, twitter did deleted accounts and tweets of people who called for violence during summer. Maybe not perfectly and plus some ambiguous accounts ended closed too, but twitter did put real eff…

Parler was created because there's a perception of biased censorship on Twitter. Never used Parler but can confirm there is a ton of hateful content and calls for violence on Twitter. I'm sorry you think it's unfair to compare the two, because anyone who cares an iota about fairness and censorship would prioritize the comparison.

Re: Facebook Incubated the Insurrection

#440
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone published an investigative report on 1/5 about different social media, the calls to violence were worst in his opinion on Parler https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2021/01/05/how-the-...

I like and read bellingcat, but, if we're being honest, it is not a neutral source of information.

> if we're being honest

...

> it is not a neutral source of information

Why not?

Post reply on HN