Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#171

Post by buran77 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #120

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the solution is liability: Companies will keep leaving unchecked algorithms responsible for this until they can go to jail for doing so. Adtech is a cancer and it's time to cut it out using every legislative and regulatory option we have. Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that.

Liability for what exactly? How about people who actually commit bad acts are the ones responsible for it? It seems like you haven't really thought about this and are just personally against adtech and those companies. That's not how rights and legislation should be decided.

> How about people who actually commit bad acts are the ones responsible for it?

"Strangely" enough this does not apply when corporations' money is at stake, hence sites like The Pirate Bay are held responsible. Taking 2 opposite approaches for the same issue in order for the lobbying corporations to profit is a sign of acting in bad faith.

Facebook built this 2 billion people village, exploited them and collected taxes, then said "You know what? Policing it is hard so let the governments do it". And the governments should do it. EaaS - Enforcement as a service. And as any service it should cost. No personal liability needed, once money starts pouring out of the companies' coffers you'll see how quickly they find a solution.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#172

Post by medium_burrito » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #107

DIVx0 wrote: post #59

I'll pile on an anecdote. I still have a facebook account but its not something I use very often except the past week given the situation in the USA. My facebook account is very old, when i was more of an active user I did all the usual posts/photos that a lot of liberal urban types contribute. Anyway, after posting some anti-insurrection posts I start noticing all sort of "tacti-cool" gear ads or targeted T-shirt s…

> so my guess is that someone out there is spending a lot of money on a huge ad target I think this is really it. The profit margins on this stuff is insane. And the volumes of money typical people spend on this stuff is also insane. (speculation here) The insurrection is probably opening the door for new customers. I would not be surprised to hear a people in zero-gun households are now seeking to acquire their firs…

Exactly, there is a massive amount of money, and tons of fear.

There has been an epic increase in gun, ammo and armor sales this year to people of all political persuasions. Gun folks are bad with this anyways due to the political cycle and ammo shortages and bans of various types of items, but there is a genuine shortage where people who are afraid of riots and violence in their cities across the US have been buying up anything and everything.

Not every city got looted, but a lot of major downtown areas did, and the police in a number of cities are going through real attrition, to the point where a lot of crime will just not be dealt with. Not to mention it will be extremely difficult to hire more police officers after they spend a year demonizing them and forcing them to deal with riots that they effectively are not allowed to stop (especially Seattle- where I live- and Portland).

Now, I have a different theory with a lot of the tactical shit. I think a huge amount of it it is hypebeast/instagram-driven fashion for a large segment of young American men with disposable incomes and no bars and sports open. Cosplay, if you will- and it's openly admitted.

PS: Assholes who are buying all the .22LR, please stop/go for a different caliber. Some of us like target shooting and want to continue our hobby.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#173

Post by titzer » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #114

Calling body armor "Military Gear" as in "only the military should be able to buy body armor" is pretty sad, even by Buzzfeed extreme-left standards. Body armor can't kill anyone.

It's the back half of the arms race. Just wait until the industry for armor-piercing bullets gets ramped up. Look at the cold war arms race. Anti-missile technology just led to a massive increase in nuclear weapons production. If your enemies defenses are 90% effective at shooting down missiles, just launch 10x as many missiles! This why both the United States and Soviet Union peaked at over 30,000 nuclear warheads[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_sto...

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#174

Post by fakedang » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

sramam wrote: post #123

manigandham wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that argument? The people advertising and selling are not the people buying and using them. It's different people.

"gun" = "platform"

Gun = Facebook platform

Hitman (because Gunslinger is too cool) = Facebook company

Targets = Capitol Rioters

Hirers = Gun companies

Bullets = Ads

The analogy works because although the companies were unintentionally blanket-targeting their victims, a real world equivalent would still be persecuted. Hence everyone involved should be punished - the rioters (who already are), Facebook the company, the gun companies (albeit in minor fashion like fines because it was stil unintentional), and Facebook the platform (which should be neutered).

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#175

Post by titzer » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #91

Worked on me. I just bought some AR500 plate armor. Better safe than sorry in today's world. I don't see any downside to buying body armor.

Paint a target on yourself? Maybe wear this under a big fluffy sweater.

(In the background I am just smh over how dystopian America is now.)

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#176

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

nataz wrote: post #66

rreichel03 wrote: post #7

As an anecdote, since July they've started showing me ads for body armor almost nonstop whenever I actually open the app. Just the other day it was a body armor ad then an ad for a tactical communication earpiece.

I'm seeing adds for illegal pistol and rifle suppressors (aka "silencers") only barely disguised as "fuel filters" and "solvent traps". The companies selling the suppressor kits claim they are legitimate auto parts. They clearly aren't. Some people have claimed that it would be legal to buy these if you applied for a license to manufacture a suppressor, but good luck arguing that in federal court, especially since th…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#177

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #165

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to. Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. I mean: - It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. - It's easy to abuse and not really possible to control. - Discriminatory micro advertisement, weather on a gender, race, religion or similar basis are pretty common for affected people, but at the same time hard to detect…

Micro Targeting can absolutely be abused and you have done a good job outlining the dark side of targeting.

But to say nothing would be lost from banning it because its always used without regard for health and dignity is way to far.

Brands like Zappos Adaptive which sells adult shoes that don't need to be tied to people with Autism. Its very hard to do this kind of sales without targeting people affected by disability. The same goes for companies innovating in Wheelchairs, diabetes care, etc..

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#178

Post by a3n » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #141

manigandham wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability for what exactly? How about people who actually commit bad acts are the ones responsible for it? It seems like you haven't really thought about this and are just personally against adtech and those companies. That's not how rights and legislation should be decided.

Fostering insurrection for profit is, I am pretty sure, illegal. And I'm pretty sure a prison or worse offense.

Are you saying the posts, or the ads next to them, are the illegal fostering? I think the gear advertised is legal.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#179

Post by babygoat » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #94

babygoat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they failed doesn’t mean they didn’t try to do so.

You think they seriously, seriously wanted to take over the US Government? 200 or so protestors that made it in? If you think that I don't know what to tell you. //Unfortunately I've hit the "You're posting too fast and you're not a democrat" limit so I can't reply further.

Does the rate limit only apply to non-Democrats?

I don’t think they were trying to take over the government themselves, but they clearly wanted to disrupt and interfere with the election process and keep their regime in power, despite losing the election.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#180

Post by jjk166 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

To make a counter point, in developing any technology that makes possible things that weren't before, you will eventually encounter problems that the creators never thought to consider. Fixing a problem once it's been identified, and thus refining the technology, is exactly what they're supposed to do. If you realize your ocean liners don't have enough life boats, you add more lifeboats, you don't ban ships.

I'm sure people will claim that this problem should have been foreseen, but it's really only obvious in hindsight. Just a few weeks ago, none of us would ever have thought to plan for the possibility of the US Capitol being stormed. Of course we could know that there would be problematic edge cases, but we couldn't have anticipated every single one, nonetheless handled all of them.

I think we sometimes forget that if Facebook were a person, they still wouldn't be old enough to drive. For all the billions of users and billions of dollars, this is still a technology in its infancy. I'll gladly hand out pitchforks if it's shown that Facebook has been dragging its feet fixing known problems, or if it's shown they've feigned ignorance about a problem they were warned would happen, but if we forbid any innovation that carries the risk of unforeseen issues, we will be banning all innovation.