Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#161

Post by kipchak » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

bitbuilder wrote: post #109

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google Images is any indication a "tactical hooded trench coat" seems like exactly the kind of thing you see the HN demographic wearing while walking to work on a rainy day. TBH I was expecting to see actual trench coats but they all seem like normal tight-ish fitting jackets in various grays, greens, browns and camo.

I can't find it anywhere anymore, even on their site. They must have realized they weren't reading the room well with the ad and modeling. But I did screenshot it previously: https://imgur.com/gallery/bxcK7zb If that's the look of the HN demographic, I'm even more out of touch than I thought I was.

That looks to be fan art from the video game/book Stalker/roadside picnic (specifically a bandit) used for advertising whatever you'd actually get in the mail. If you reverse image search it a couple different variations of the image will pop up, a lot of which are less than reputable looking stores.[2][3]

[1]https://danielkquemist.artstation.com/projects/lVx8Ne?album_...

[2]https://www.nikiluwa.com/products/mens-tactical-hooded-jacke...

[3]https://www.blaroken.com/products/mens-tactical-hooded-jacke...

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#162

Post by huntermeyer » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #72

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

That's why the solution is liability: Companies will keep leaving unchecked algorithms responsible for this until they can go to jail for doing so. Adtech is a cancer and it's time to cut it out using every legislative and regulatory option we have. Put Mark Zuckerberg and Sundar Pichai behind bars and the problem will correct after that.

This will never happen. Cigarettes are still being advertised and sold.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#163

Post by balozi » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #114

Calling body armor "Military Gear" as in "only the military should be able to buy body armor" is pretty sad, even by Buzzfeed extreme-left standards. Body armor can't kill anyone.

Now the BuzzFeed article can be cited by other journalists/opinion writers and politicians when they weave the case for banning Y or Z. That's the same path that transformed run-of-the-mill rifles into scary "assault weapons."

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#164

Post by wombatpm » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

I think the problem is more in microtargeting than in anything else.

Once upon a time, advertisers would struggle to create an ad campaign that had broad appeal, that was disseminated broadly. Think Budweiser Frogs and other superbowl commercials. Now a campaign can be targeted to divorced white men over 40 whose ex's have remarried and consist of allusions to the false fact that jerks like your ex's new husband drink Miller, therefore you should drink Bud.

What is bad is with A_B testing, machine learning and low cost targeting, the process of creating those campaign gets easier. When applied to politics it gets even worse. Because now you can target your racists message to just the racists, and your wholesome family message to soccer moms, safe in the knowledge that these contradictory messages will never been seen by the wrong audience thanks to Facebook et. al.

So of course ads for tactical gear are going to show up next to insurrection posts by the kookitariat and ads for homesafety will show up next to cat picture posts by soccer moms - even if it is the same company selling the same products.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#165

Post by dathinab » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to.

Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments.

I mean:

- It's fundamental meant to manipulate people.

- It's easy to abuse and not really possible to control.

- Discriminatory micro advertisement, weather on a gender, race, religion or similar basis are pretty common for affected people, but at the same time hard to detect for Facebook or any control organization.

- Category combinations which indirectly target addicts are repeatedly used to target them with ad's promoting what this people are addicted to, e.g. gambling.

- *The value it provides for the consumer is questionable.*

- *The value it provides for a ethnically acceptable free marked are questionable.*

- As far as I can tell the only ones noticeable profiting (and as such majorly losing out from a ban) from it are such which act without any regard for the health and dignity/well being of the consumer and society in total (well and big ad platforms).

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#166

Post by richrichardsson » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #118

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the ads illegal? Or the products they are advertising? The website for Soldier of Fortune advertises similar products, should they be shut down? How about the print magazine, should that be shut down as well? There are a lot of sites out there that publish much more objectionable content. Should we shut all of them down as well?

> Are the ads illegal? [...] should they be shut down? Probably not, but insurrection is. The ad isn’t the problem here, the context & juxtaposition is the problem. It’s not a call to shut down ads, it’s a call to avoid accidentally (or worse, intentionally) supporting illegal speech and violence.

> the context & juxtaposition is the problem

This seems like an issue that cannot be solved (yet). No human editor would place insensitive adverts next to related content, and I think we're a way off ML knowing the myriad subtleties that could be involved.

A sibling content mentioned adding rules to stop this particular case in point, but that just sounds like an endless game of whack-a-mole.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#167

Post by captain_price7 » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

dathinab wrote: post #165

brundolf wrote: post #67

The unintuitive thing here (for the general population at least, possibly not the HN crowd) is that almost certainly nobody at Facebook saw, and approved (much less designed) this marketing strategy. It naturally emerged from the goals the system has been given. That doesn't excuse it: in fact, it indicts automated targeted-advertisement as a category. This software is working exactly as it was designed to. I'm sure…

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to. Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. I mean: - It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. - It's easy to abuse and not really possible to control. - Discriminatory micro advertisement, weather on a gender, race, religion or similar basis are pretty common for affected people, but at the same time hard to detect…

> Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments.

Any site that doesn't allow opting out of micro targeting should be banned by government.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#168

Post by titzer » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

Just another sign that the core of every tech company's executive leadership is the drive to build a machine with one instruction: make us as much money as possible. They'd happily tuck this machine away in the basement and eliminate the human supervision as a "cost" if they could. At heart, they really don't care what the machine does. And the engineers? Let's hope they automate themselves away eventually! They're always demanding payraises and causing a stink. Instruction side condition: keep engineers busy with scaling up, try not to get us into trouble.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#169

Post by cptnapalm » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

libertine wrote: post #155

cptnapalm wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For body armor and certain kinds of weapons and attachments, one needs a Class III license. They are not available to the general public, as you wrote. EDIT: I'm wrong on body armor. I could have sworn at least some of it was restricted and required a license.

Thank you for correcting me.

I will say that for a law abiding citizen, there's really no real road block to getting a Class III. However, only very few people bother to do it.

In so far as to how dangerous it is, there are 630,000 legal full-auto/select-fire weapons in the US. They do require a Class III license to purchase and own and there have been no new ones since 1986. As I recall, of those 630,000, only 3 have been used illegally since 1934 and 2 of those were, ironically, by cops.

Re: Facebook Has Been Showing Military Gear Ads Next to “Insurrection” Posts

#170

Post by ouid » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

captain_price7 wrote: post #167

dathinab wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This software is working exactly as it was designed to. Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. I mean: - It's fundamental meant to manipulate people. - It's easy to abuse and not really possible to control. - Discriminatory micro advertisement, weather on a gender, race, religion or similar basis are pretty common for affected people, but at the same time hard to detect…

> Exactly this is why I think micro targeting should simply be banned by governments. Any site that doesn't allow opting out of micro targeting should be banned by government.

The gulf between opt out and opt in is enormous, and the entire problem. Opt out is not informed consent.