Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

barrons.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 332 posts

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#241

Post by that_guy_iain »

jariel wrote: post #193
that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

" I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal" Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis. Combined with the fact that the effect quickly erodes, that users want ever more aggressive substitu…

> Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis.

That would never happen. People literally wouldn't buy the products enmass because they don't want to sit around drooping all day.

> Finally - if Tobacco is really in the same category of addictivity, then ironically, you've made an argument that we really should shut down the opioid industry hard, because while quitting smoking is difficult, it's not existentially hard and the resulting withdrawal does not require medical attention or anything on the scale of 'Trainspotting withdrawal'.

Everyone seems to be thinking about how bad the withdrawal is and not how long the addiction lasts. The addiction to heroin and many other substances is over in days and weeks. Tobacco as any former smoker who has successful quit will tell you, you have cravings for months, not constant but enough that it's a thing for quite a while.

> An acquaintance in Prison indicated they call the heroin addicts zombies, because they bang on the doors and yell 3 times a day as they receive their poison, which is slowly killing them. I'd argue that incarcerating people and slowly killing them is a strange punishment for those wanting to 'reduce harm' whereupon the logical thing for their health would be to make sure they had absolutely no access and an opportunity to dry out. I hope that in 50 year we look back on 'free heroin' like lobotomies or shock therapy.

You should look into how Portugal has dealt with the drug problem. The free heroin isn't the issue, it's the lack of other support systems to get them off the heroin. Prison is not a place for support.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#242

Post by SirSourdough »

barry-cotter wrote: post #199
enkid wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalization has not stopped alcohol poisoning. Is there some reason it would stop heroin overdoses?

Known purity, quality control, known quantity. If you actually know how much it’ll take you to get high you’re not going to overdose because you coverage got a stronger than average batch. You certainly aren’t going to get fentanyl sold as heroin. Wouldn’t stop overdoses entirely obviously.

I don't think this really addresses the point though. Alcohol is sold with known purity, quality, and quantity. You aren't going to overdose due to an impurity.

Yet dangerous drinking is still very common, and alcohol causes significant strains on our society, perhaps more than any other drug. Why do we think that the situation would be different with legalizing other drugs? A major decline in the risk per use massively outweighed by a huge increase in use over time due to legalization.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#243

Post by pantalaimon »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #227
JimBlackwood wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik, weed is a small part of the market. Agree on the legalisation though. In the Netherlands at least, I find it hard to name more than a few individuals in my social group (university students from a range of studies) that aren’t recreational users of XTC/psychedelics. Having visited festivals and clubs in other European countries, I think the situation is not much different there. It seems a bit pointless to kee…

I would be so scared to be a recreational user of MDMA at this point in time, because from what I hear there is a large amount of fentanyl and other concentrated opiates floating around in the street drug supply.

The effects of MDMA and opiates are entirely opposite - why would someone cut MDMA with fentanyl?

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#244

Post by rtisdale »

brazzy wrote: post #125
that_guy_iain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience talking to the people whose job it is to provide support and services to those who abuse substances. Most experts in substance abuse normally say Alcohol is the worst of all the substances. With many stating, it causes more havoc in families on scale than heroin. More people die because of Alcohol, not just from drinking it but from drink drivers, drunken fights, etc. The general violence caused by…

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

This was relevant to the parent post as well as your own comment.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11660210

A UK study led by a panel of experts analyzed a number of recreational drugs and evaluated them across 16 different criteria.

Alcohol was one of the most dangerous drugs and was unique in that it was the only drug that posed more risk to society than it did for the actual user.

This is of course, not definitive proof of the parents assertions but the findings do lend evidence to it.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#245

Post by SirSourdough »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #205
brazzy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the crux here is that decriminalising/legalising the use of drugs such as heroin would not make them more widespread and ubiquitous. That is a very ridiculously wrong statement. > Despite being illegal they are still so very easy to access in almost all countries You apparently have a pretty wide definition of "Very easy". I wouldn't have the faintest clue how to lay my hands on some heroin. Yes, I might st…

I'm surprised you don't get constantly hassled by sketchy people on the street trying to sell you drugs. Also, homeless people everywhere often know who to ask or where to go.

I hope we can agree that there's a significant difference in accessibility for something you can legally buy from the store versus something that you have to seek out illegally from random "sketchy people on the street".

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#246

Post by [deleted] »

leoplct wrote: post #139

It is very easy for the buyer to get caught: - Buy BTC from an exchange with KYC and then send it to the seller (police) - Receive the product by post or collect it at a pick-up point where the seller (police) knows the address. What strategies can the buyer follow to protect his privacy and trust the seller?

[deleted]

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#247

Post by jariel »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #241
jariel wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal" Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis. Combined with the fact that the effect quickly erodes, that users want ever more aggressive substitu…

> Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis. That would never happen. People literally wouldn't buy the products enmass because they don't want to sit around drooping all day. > Finally - if Tobacco is really in t…

"wouldn't buy the products the products enmass because they don't want to sit around drooping all day."

Yes they would (!) and we already know why: it's extremely addictive.

We have ample evidence from the ongoing Opioid Crisis that people who get 'too many pills' from an operation can and do become very addicted and 'do it all day'.

Have a look here [1] from the Economist.

What does that look like? It looks like 'COVID explosion' doesn't it?

And consider that we already have restrictions in place for Heroin, what would that 'R0/R1' (aka transmissible social disease) look like without restrictions? It would look like COVID 'without social distancing' aka disaster.

This is happening to Soccer Moms and Patent Lawyers.

And you must be aware that this isn't about 'being high' it's 'addiction servicing' whereby they need the fix to maintain a degree of normalcy.

'Opioids at the Gas Station Checkout' would devolve any society into 'World War Z' within a few months. Only a small fraction of the population affected would overwhelm the medical system.

[1] https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/10/07/america-...

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#248

Post by c0nducktr »

pantalaimon wrote: post #243
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be so scared to be a recreational user of MDMA at this point in time, because from what I hear there is a large amount of fentanyl and other concentrated opiates floating around in the street drug supply.

The effects of MDMA and opiates are entirely opposite - why would someone cut MDMA with fentanyl?

My guess would be it's an issue with cross contamination, not an intentional mixture of the two.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#249

Post by rtisdale »

barry-cotter wrote: post #199
enkid wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalization has not stopped alcohol poisoning. Is there some reason it would stop heroin overdoses?

Known purity, quality control, known quantity. If you actually know how much it’ll take you to get high you’re not going to overdose because you coverage got a stronger than average batch. You certainly aren’t going to get fentanyl sold as heroin. Wouldn’t stop overdoses entirely obviously.

Can't reply directly to SirSourdough because of thread limits.

>I don't think this really address the point though. Alcohol is sold with known purity, quality, and quantity. You aren't going to overdose due to an impurity.

Their argument was never that it would stop everything, only that it would help (and I agree).

How many people have you met that have gone blind from drinking "bad" alcohol? During the prohibition era, this was an actual issue people faced.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/drink/alcohol-history/prohibit...

>A major decline in the risk per use massively outweighed by a huge increase in use over time due to legalization.

There is evidence that decriminalization when paired with other policies can potentially cause decreases in usage as well as a decrease in negative outcomes such as HIV transmission rates and drug deaths.

https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portuga....

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#250

Post by abstractbarista »

Glad to see more XMR usage in these. For every market you take down, two more shall pop up. You cannot fix a demand-side problem by restricting supply. Economically, the pricing will always rise to meet the increased risk of supplying. This war cannot be won. So please just give up.
Post reply on HN