German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace' • Hacker News Board

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#191

Post by alickz » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

Moru wrote: post #86

oaiey wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US citizens are taxable also abroad to my understanding ;). One of the few countries doing it like that.

I live in Sweden. When we open a bank account we always get a bunch of questions. One of them is "Are you a US citizen?". The banks are apparently required to send the information to US.

I'd guess it has something to do with FATCA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance...

> The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a 2010 United States federal law requiring all non-U.S. foreign financial institutions (FFIs) to search their records for customers with indicia of a connection to the U.S., including indications in records of birth or prior residency in the U.S., or the like, and to report the assets and identities of such persons to the U.S. Department of the Treasury.[1]

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#192

Post by amanaplanacanal » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #183

cfcosta wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If they were as widely available, you would be able to know what you're buying, how much and hopefully how to apply it as safely as possible. Having drugs being illegal make them stronger, as they have to be transported in secret, and create derivative drugs to fill lower price ranges for long term addicts, such as crack and oxy.

> Yes. If they were as widely available, you would be able to know what you're buying, how much and hopefully how to apply it as safely as possible. Knowing and doing are two different things. Yes, you'd get fewer accidental overdoses from people getting stronger stuff than they thought. But you'd get more (possibly a lot more) people overdosing from chasing a high despite having built a tolerance, or from doing craz…

You could make advertising them illegal. Also make alcohol and tobacco advertising illegal at the same time.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#193

Post by jariel » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

" I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal"

Wow, you're not using your imagination well enough to recognize how ubiquitously widespread opioid addiction would be were it integrated into our coffee, soft-drinks, an aperatif with dinner etc.. It would be a massive, ongoing public health crisis.

Combined with the fact that the effect quickly erodes, that users want ever more aggressive substitutes like Fentanyl, it almost guarantees the inevitable OD.

Blaming the 'harm' on systems literally trying to stop the promulgation of what arguably is actually poison ... is a leap in logic.

Tobacco is similarly additive, but it obviously has a completely different set of health effects.

Finally - if Tobacco is really in the same category of addictivity, then ironically, you've made an argument that we really should shut down the opioid industry hard, because while quitting smoking is difficult, it's not existentially hard and the resulting withdrawal does not require medical attention or anything on the scale of 'Trainspotting withdrawal'.

An acquaintance in Prison indicated they call the heroin addicts zombies, because they bang on the doors and yell 3 times a day as they receive their poison, which is slowly killing them. I'd argue that incarcerating people and slowly killing them is a strange punishment for those wanting to 'reduce harm' whereupon the logical thing for their health would be to make sure they had absolutely no access and an opportunity to dry out. I hope that in 50 year we look back on 'free heroin' like lobotomies or shock therapy.

Humans have some control of our faculties and must overcome impulses of all kind - facilitating the total degradation of that control system by administering poison is definitely a form of torture. I'd rather be waterboarded.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#194

Post by hrktb » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #185

martin_a wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let's just legalize them all and hope that people will use them responsibly. As a German, I can, with no problem whatsoever, go into the next supermarket and buy enough alcohol and cigarettes to severly hurt myself. No one gives a shit, probably because the state earns money when I do so. Either we find (all) drugs bad, or we stop being such liars in regards to this.

I would suggest that it is possible that some drugs are worse than others. That perhaps caffeine should be freely available but meth should be regulated or outlawed, for instance. I do not KNOW this to be the correct I am simply asking you to consider that it could be the case that some drugs are more dangerous to people/society than others. I do however agree that alcohol is likely extremely bad for people/societies…

Education and supervised access can strike a good balance.

Not really a recreational drug, but for instance paracetamol is mostly free of access while having a potential for severe damage on overuse, and it kinda works thanks to having someone hand over the goods with a kind warning (and not being able to buy it willy-nilly at night when you're drunk for instance)

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#195

Post by enkid » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

Legalization has not stopped alcohol poisoning. Is there some reason it would stop heroin overdoses?

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#196

Post by jariel » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

hummusman wrote: post #153

brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

I think the crux here is that decriminalising/legalising the use of drugs such as heroin would not make them more widespread and ubiquitous. Despite being illegal they are still so very easy to access in almost all countries, and most people are well aware of the high risks associated with them. Legalising them would bring users/abusers into a more public sphere where it is far easier to access harm reduction and the…

The laws of supply and demand would indicate otherwise.

If you make something easier to access - either by reduced price, more contact, reduced social stigma - people will consume more of it, straight up.

Think of it like a social disease that has an R0/R1 that communicates itself much like COVID.

Kids how absolutely don't know anyone who's ever done Heroin, are unlikely to ever even have the thought, let alone, try to find out 'where on earth' to buy.

If you have a group of 3 kids in school who are starting to use, the likelihood that they 'infect' other students is very high.

We force people to isolate and take certain precautions when they threaten the community with COVID, why on earth we wouldn't do the same with heroin addiction?

And of course, it's not illegal to 'have' COVID and we are sympathetic to those that have it, so there's that as well ...

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#197

Post by narag » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:18 PM UTC

MrDresden wrote: post #78

ebilgenius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like the FBI and DEA were involved as well as several other country's police agencies, with Europol acting as coordinator. Lots of money moving across countries means lots of taxes probably not being paid, hence the IRS.

Well the IRS would only have been involved if the money flowed into the US and/or to a US citizen. They have no jurisdiction abroad

The markets are used for transactions around the world. Probably a lot of them in the USA.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#198

Post by brazzy » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

brazzy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But note that all those statement are about the amount of harm in an environment where alcohol is legal, cheaply available in every supermarket, widely advertized, and its consumption socially accepted, even expected . Can you really say in good conscience that other drugs wouldn't be worse if they became equally ubiquitous?

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

> For the most part, yes.

No.

> Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available.

I fully agree with this.

> For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice.

Even if that is true, the harm that does not come from the fact that it's illegal would be magnified a hundredfold if it became as widespread as alcohol (which is, please keep that in mind, the scenario I was talking about). That's not hyperbole: Accodding to the European Drug Report 2018 (https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/system/files/publications/8585/...), the prevalence of injecting drugs (chiefly heroin) is between 0 and 0.9%, which consumption of alcohol is pretty damn near 100%.

> Considering tobacco is more addictive, and we have way less crime to buy tobacco, it seems logical to assume crime would drop if drug addicts didn't have to spend 20-30 a day on drugs. Then you have the violence and anti-social behaviour which for most drugs is non-existent.

Even if that is not exaggerated (which I strongly supect it is), those are not the only kinds of harm: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/hero...

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#199

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

enkid wrote: post #195

that_guy_iain wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part, yes. Lots of the harm comes from the fact they're not legal and cheaply available. For example, heroin, I would say nearly all the harm comes from the fact it's not legal. Overdoses are prevented because they can happen in safe places where people will notice. I've even been told of a story where people thought someone was having an overdose and they were told to go home because they couldn't risk…

Legalization has not stopped alcohol poisoning. Is there some reason it would stop heroin overdoses?

Known purity, quality control, known quantity. If you actually know how much it’ll take you to get high you’re not going to overdose because you coverage got a stronger than average batch. You certainly aren’t going to get fentanyl sold as heroin.

Wouldn’t stop overdoses entirely obviously.

Re: German police take down 'world's largest darknet marketplace'

#200

Post by brazzy » Thu, Jan 14, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #192

brazzy wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes. If they were as widely available, you would be able to know what you're buying, how much and hopefully how to apply it as safely as possible. Knowing and doing are two different things. Yes, you'd get fewer accidental overdoses from people getting stronger stuff than they thought. But you'd get more (possibly a lot more) people overdosing from chasing a high despite having built a tolerance, or from doing craz…

You could make advertising them illegal. Also make alcohol and tobacco advertising illegal at the same time.

That's kind of a minimal measure, and already implemented to some degree in many places. Its effects are limited, and it's a cat and mouse game because there are so many subtle ways to advertise.