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Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#391
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the correct answer. To put it another way, US companies are more productive (in the economic sense) than EU companies, and that gap is even wider for tech companies (& those that rely heavily on employing software engineers). Putting aside the question of whether EU companies have higher overhead per employee (probably true on average), they also derive significantly less value from their employees. This is t…

Reading your comment gave me a thought... maybe a better way of looking at the difference in salaries is that living in the EU is better value for money than living in the US. In pretty much all of the EU, even in expensive cities like Stockholm or Dublin, if you earn a salary of €100,000, you can live a pretty decent life. Heck even on €50,000, you can do well in a lot of places. Good luck doing the same in any of t…

There is a sense in which a non-trivial chunk of those productivity gains are eaten up by rent-seeking (in SF/NY, the high rents are literally rent-seeking in that they're the result of deliberate manipulation of local laws & regulations around housing & zoning for the benefit of existing homeowners). Even there, though, a single person can live quite nicely on 100k USD (or 120k USD, if going from 100k Euro), if they're ok with roommates. On 50-60k USD, yeah, that'd be trickier, though honestly it's manageable if you skip the top 5. You can have a very reasonable quality of life in, say, Los Angeles (as a healthy young person without dependents, yes) with that income.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#392
post #191

Europeaners seem to think getting by is just fine. They're happy that they're hyper educated, that their kids are going to be hyper educated, that their healthcare is paid for, and they get lots of vacation. Because you can't save, you are entirely dependent, in a broader sense, on the government's stability (I am not using this sentiment in a pejorative sense like some might.) Americans want their fair share of the…

A larger fraction of Americans have a tertiary degree than almost all European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_... > Personally, I believe letting people leave the US without monetary penalties so they can pursue cultures that more match their own values is the solution. There are no monetary penalties unless you are both much wealthier than the average person and have substanti…

> The hard part is finding another country that will take you, not leaving.

I am aware, which is why:

> I once thought that having a system setup so that people could switch places between countries might be beneficial, one that augments the current immigration system.

I've never heard of such an idea before, so I don't know what to call it, but this is the problem it was aimed at solving when I had the idea.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#393
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your income should not be based on input (risk, comfort), but rather your output (scale, value). Why?

Compensation, in a perfect world, should be based on how much value you bring to the company.

Not again! The labor theory of value is rearing its head out of the grave again! Oh no! /s

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#394

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

I graduated with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree with no debt through scholarships and grants. I have saved nothing for my children’s education. If they want to attend college, it is on them to pay their way just as it was for me. I’ve told them that I will help a bit during their first year. My company matches my retirement savings up to 5%. I save nothing else for retirement. I should have millions of doll…

So, “fuck you got mine” basically?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of CEO makes 250 million? Microsoft's CEO made ~44 million last year, and Microsoft is a trillion dollar company ( https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/10/20/microsof... .)

Well, there's papa elon who made $2.3B in 2018. Though, I agree, that's a massive outlier :) Zaslav at Discovery was next in line with $129M total comp in 2018 [1]. Sounds like Satya needs to ask for a raise ;) [1] https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/discovery-ceo-david-z...

That's because he's a founder and major shareholder, not because he is CEO.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience moving from CA to Japan is that despite the national taxes being higher than the USA, it pencils out to less than what I was paying in the US because of CA’s high tax rate, and I get a functioning healthcare system to boot.

Are you a developer in Japan? What is that like and what space do you work in? I’ll never be able to move to Japan but it sounds very interesting to me.

Coworkers at Japanese company with site here in California relayed to me the pay was 3-5x less circa 1990s at least, many developers there can speak English but being fluent in Japanese would help a lot (even necessary at times) in work situations and outside work.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#397
This is just a PSA for those comparing financial (in)equality between Europe and the USA: income inequality is different from wealth equality. Income inequality might be lower in Europe but apparently wealth inequality is relatively high.

This video gives a good explanation about their difference: https://youtu.be/Ot4qdCs54ZE

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree with no debt through scholarships and grants. I have saved nothing for my children’s education. If they want to attend college, it is on them to pay their way just as it was for me. I’ve told them that I will help a bit during their first year. My company matches my retirement savings up to 5%. I save nothing else for retirement. I should have millions of doll…

So, “fuck you got mine” basically?

No? How could you possibly get that from what I said? Quite the opposite. I'm saying that they (developers in Europe) should be able to be paid the same as developers in the USA.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with 2 bachelors degrees and a masters degree with no debt through scholarships and grants. I have saved nothing for my children’s education. If they want to attend college, it is on them to pay their way just as it was for me. I’ve told them that I will help a bit during their first year. My company matches my retirement savings up to 5%. I save nothing else for retirement. I should have millions of doll…

First rule of the Happy FAANG Employee Club is to not tell anyone about how awesome your job is.

Yeah, except I don't work for a FAANG. I don't even live within a 1000 miles of any FAANG campus.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#400
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as my experience goes, managers make about the same, or less, as an engineer at a similar experience level. They may end up at a higher compensation level if far enough in the career ladder, but I don't think it's significant in the bigger picture. The average CEO earnings in the Netherlands, including bonuses, is only 5x-6x the average engineer salary.

So maybe the real answer to the question is that European tech companies are just not making a lot of money?

Probably this I only know Finland tech scene but eg lot of Nokia engineers did FAANG like salaries in 2000s and there is now couple unicorns here where senior employees do very well.
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