Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 974 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#201

Post by tananaev »

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

What happens when the government doesn't have enough money to pay for retirement anymore? The system works well when you have growing workforce and productivity. It doesn't work with growing number of retirees and shrinking active workforce.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#202

Post by codeisawesome »

ricardobeat wrote: post #173
aaomidi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salaries aren't low because of equality though. You're just shifting the high earners from the people doing the work to the managers of the people doing the work.

As far as my experience goes, managers make about the same, or less, as an engineer at a similar experience level. They may end up at a higher compensation level if far enough in the career ladder, but I don't think it's significant in the bigger picture. The average CEO earnings in the Netherlands, including bonuses, is only 5x-6x the average engineer salary.

That’s mind blowing

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#203

Post by esoterica »

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

> I have worked 20 years in the same job and so have my colleagues. This is a cultural difference I feel.

I think this is part of your company's culture, not your society's culture. There are also lots of Dunder-Mifflin type companies in America where nobody has any ambition and everyone just coasts until retirement.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#204

Post by etothepii »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #178
betaby wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your link, GINI of Canada and Tajikistan is the same or Finland and Azerbaijan. Totalitarian states like Belarus or Kazakhstan have one of the lowest GINIs in the world, now I question gini usefulness even more.

Trives of neanderthals were very equal too. Obviously you have to compare apples to apples

Read "Sapiens" 35 hour working week as a hunter gather is far preferable to the 60 + home chores of the homo softwaricus.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#205

Post by [deleted] »

paxys wrote: post #159

Competition. The only way a company will pay you more is if you threaten to go work for the one across the street. European labor laws actually work against the interest of employees in this case, since everyone there has longer term contracts, long notice periods and strict non-compete agreements. I also don't agree with your second point. Salaries of software engineers in the US aren't "skewed" or "inflated". If an…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#206

Post by KraftKacke »

ricardobeat wrote: post #185
shekispeaks wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting very rich allows me to do cook less, do less chores and build up my skill further (get better) or to pursue passions that do not pay well. I calculated moving to Europe as a SWE would lead to a drastic lifestyle change for me—even with retirement, healthcare and children's education considered (with 2 children, Europe wins at 3 hands down).

Reminds me of something I read a few weeks ago. An old lady who lives in a cabin in the woods is being interviewed. The interviewer asks: "isn't it incredibly inconvenient that you need to gather firewood and light a fire every time you want to drink some tea?" "Isn't it inconvenient that you have to work for someone else for 8 hours every day, only so you don't need to start a fire?" I'm positive you can do all of t…

I recently learned, people worked less when we were hunter/gatherer, had more leisure time.

I don't want to skip on modern medicine and shit, but it does make you think...

[*] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yocja_N5s1I

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#207

Post by esoterica »

kodah wrote: post #191

Europeaners seem to think getting by is just fine. They're happy that they're hyper educated, that their kids are going to be hyper educated, that their healthcare is paid for, and they get lots of vacation. Because you can't save, you are entirely dependent, in a broader sense, on the government's stability (I am not using this sentiment in a pejorative sense like some might.) Americans want their fair share of the…

A larger fraction of Americans have a tertiary degree than almost all European countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_...

> Personally, I believe letting people leave the US without monetary penalties so they can pursue cultures that more match their own values is the solution.

There are no monetary penalties unless you are both much wealthier than the average person and have substantial unrealized capital gains. The hard part is finding another country that will take you, not leaving.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#208

Post by owowow »

codeisawesome wrote: post #202
ricardobeat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as my experience goes, managers make about the same, or less, as an engineer at a similar experience level. They may end up at a higher compensation level if far enough in the career ladder, but I don't think it's significant in the bigger picture. The average CEO earnings in the Netherlands, including bonuses, is only 5x-6x the average engineer salary.

That’s mind blowing

The CEO only earning a few hundred thousand is mind blowing? Really?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#209

Post by majormajor »

arcticbull wrote: post #126
betaby wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call Canadian (or Fr or Se) wealth inequality 'low'. 'Why I can't afford a house', again is more a problem in Fr/De/Se than in US, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_owne...

Inequality in Canada is substantially lower than in America (and is on par with Australia, and between Fr and Se). This is evidenced in their Gini coefficients. [1] - Gini for SE is 0.25 - Gini for FR is 0.31 - Gini for CA is 0.33 - Gini for US is 0.48 - Gini for ZA is 0.65 I've also included South Africa for comparison, one of the least equal societies on earth. A photo of what a 0.65 Gini country looks like is here…

Are those wealth or income coefficients?

My impression has been that wealth inequality in many places in Europe is much higher than income inequality, as a factor of it being an older society.

The places in Europe I'd want to move to are really no cheaper to buy a house than the places I'd want to live in the US.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#210

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jeofken wrote: post #87
joelbluminator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If he earns more at Pornhub he makes the world better? Even FAANG is debatable.

Defining “better” isn’t easy, but “more valuable” is a falsifiable measure. I hate Facebook and Google but they do provide a lot of value to their customers (advertisers)

Right, thats why uber recently discovered that massive fraud in ad spending did not affect their sales
Post reply on HN