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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#221

Post by [deleted] »

wheels wrote: post #201
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

[deleted]

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#222

Post by robotresearcher »

chrisaycock wrote: post #210
wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. I used to live in Britain. After having gone to doctor a few times there, I'd rather have the customer-pays model of America. I was just pointing-out that it's (obviously) expensive over here.

If that doctor had told you you had cancer, your preference might be different.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#223

Post by xbryanx »

This is one of the reasons I love my technology work at a non-profit. Sure I make lots less, but they are extremely generous with paid time off. Our institutional culture encourages people taking vacations, and while we have serious tight deadlines, people still support a healthy life-work balance.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#224

Post by tsotha »

potatolicious wrote: post #165
jasonkester wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about your choice of words up there, and you might just come up with your solution. Force. As in, my employer is forcing me to take shorter vacations. My employer is forcing me to work my vacations around their schedule. That's not what he's doing. He's coercing you. It's different. He's implying that if you take the vacation you want, there might not be a job waiting when you get back. The answer to that is "f…

> "Quit thinking in those terms and you'll live a much happier life." I agree in principle, but it's not always so simple. When you're young, have no kids, no mortgage, no car loan, etc, it's pretty easy to just say "fuck off, see ya" when your employer acts abusively. When you have all of the above, that becomes more difficult. Relocating is more often than not the norm in this industry, and you don't exactly want t…

>I agree in principle, but it's not always so simple. When you're young, have no kids, no mortgage, no car loan, etc, it's pretty easy to just say "fuck off, see ya" when your employer acts abusively.

Even if you have all those responsibilities and you're leveraged up to your eyeballs you can still quit your job. You just need to line up another one first. I've been doing technical work for almost 25. In that time I've quit two jobs because they weren't treating me the way I expect to be treated, but I've never been without a job.

Even if you can afford it you're really hurting yourself by screaming "fuck off, see ya" at your boss and stomping out to look for another job. It's a lot easier to find a job when you already have one, and your negotiating position for salary and benefits is much stronger.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#225

Post by mapgrep »

wheels wrote: post #201
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

I really appreciate your reply and the global perspective!

That said, I'm not sure about Germany being approximately as rough as the U.S..

* Retirement - Our benefit is well under half of yours. The _minimum_ German pension, the floor, after reform will be 67 percent of national average wage (cites below). In the U.S., the average social security benefit is $1,153, annualized to $13,863 or about 34 percent of the average national income of $40,711.

So our _average_ govt. retirement benefit (34%) is about half of your _minimum_ retirement benefit (67%). In fact, the maximum U.S. benefit of $2,346 is just 69 percent of national income, i.e. the current German minimum (!) (it will go down to 67 percent under the current reform).

[German data: http://www.economist.com/node/618334 ] [U.S. social security benefit data: http://www.aarp.org/work/social-security/info-07-2010/maximu... ][U.S. wage data: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html ]

* Unemployment - (-edited thrice-) The average is 47 percent of wages in U.S. vs 60 or 67 percent in Germany depending on if you have kids. Germany is still more generous. [German data http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/9/54/29730499.PDF http://www.justlanded.com/english/Germany/Germany-Guide/Jobs... ] [U.S. data http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3394 ]

If you are right about "housings costs + 500 per month" this is, indeed, be about in line with U.S. benefits which average $300 per week (~1300 per month); our housing payments average $684. Not sure how to reconcile that with the 60 percent figure from OECD and elsewhere.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#226

Post by mjw »

chrisaycock wrote: post #210
wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. I used to live in Britain. After having gone to doctor a few times there, I'd rather have the customer-pays model of America. I was just pointing-out that it's (obviously) expensive over here.

You can have the 'customer pays' model in Britain too if you want it - just roll up to a BUPA (or some other private) hospital and whip out your wallet.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#227

Post by [deleted] »

Aloisius wrote: post #147

If the US had the culture of taking off August, it would be far easier to take off 3 weeks since everyone in your company would be doing it. Logistically however I don't really understand how taking August off works in Europe. Where does everyone go? Doesn't it get super crowded?

[deleted]

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#228

Post by pnathan »

wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

housing costs are amazingly obscene in some cities. Based on my minimal looking around, the cost of living is going to account for a lot of those "barely survive" stories.

That plus nice cars, eating out, and buying iPads.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#229

Post by henrikschroder »

MatthewB wrote: post #63

My employer gives the usual 2 weeks vacation for the first year of employment. Then, every year after that, you get an extra week up to 4 weeks paid vacation per year. Also, my employer is very vacation friendly in terms of requesting time off. However, the biggest problem I have is actually taking the time off! I feel like I will miss too much work if I take a long vacation so I just take off a day or two here and t…

What do you mean "miss too much work" ?

Seriously, what's the worst that could happen if you're not there for a week or two?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#230

Post by ankimal »

sudonim wrote: post #12

No vacation really sucks. I took 2 months between jobs once, but I've always been able to take a week or two weeks at a time. Now, we have the same policy as netflix. Basically you take time off when you want it, and you take as much as you want. It's all paid. Our only designer is gone for 3 weeks to get married. We'll struggle a little bit for those 3 weeks, but I'm grateful that when it's my time to take a week or…

We have the Netflix policy, well almost. We get the time off when you want it, but never more than 5 working days together (Thats a week). Did I mention that a large number of the employees travel abroad to visit family?
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